S221030CM requiring "We want to be the first who may listen to your work"?

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PDebik
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S221030CM requiring "We want to be the first who may listen to your work"?

Post by PDebik » Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:36 am

S221030CM

"IMPORTANT: Your Submissions can NOT be encumbered by ANY other publishing, licensing, administration, and/or exploitation deals (whether non-exclusive or exclusive) including publishing/licensing agreements with CD Baby, TuneCore, etc."

And in the next line:

"This Company offers a NON-EXCLUSIVE deal ..."

Not only that almost all listings became "exclusive" listings during the past two years, which is a problem in itself: Now the libraries are expecting to be presented with unpublished work yet will go for a non-exclusive deal? That's like "Hey, we expect to be the ones who can listen to your song first." No way. Production costs are way to high to go "exclusive" anways. I can't possibly produce songs or instrumentals just to keep them in a drawer and to hope that maybe in a few years they might be chosen for some TV or movie production. Production costs thousands over thousands of Dollar. It is uneconomical to use material exclusively, especially when the buyer does not guarantee placements.

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Re: S221030CM requiring "We want to be the first who may listen to your work"?

Post by Paulie » Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:57 pm

I write instrumental music almost exclusively Lots of composers, myself included, prefer to work with Exclusive libraries for the sake of simplicity. I know that when I send music to a client that they will take care of everything and I don't have to worry about keeping track of which library has my tracks, or worry about re-titling confusion.

With regard to publishing, libraries are trying to avoid ownership percentage conflicts. There is a fixed percentage available for music when published, if a publisher is involved, now the library has to determine what their cut it, and has to comply with the publishers policies. It just creates more complexity, in my opinion.

Your concerns are valid, I think they help emphasize that it is important that you work with reputable libraries with established success. If you want to have more options, you can choose to work with Non-exclusive libraries... my experience has been that I get far more placements with Exclusive libraries.
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Re: S221030CM requiring "We want to be the first who may listen to your work"?

Post by Casey H » Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:26 pm

Paulie wrote:
Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:57 pm
I write instrumental music almost exclusively Lots of composers, myself included, prefer to work with Exclusive libraries for the sake of simplicity. I know that when I send music to a client that they will take care of everything and I don't have to worry about keeping track of which library has my tracks, or worry about re-titling confusion.

With regard to publishing, libraries are trying to avoid ownership percentage conflicts. There is a fixed percentage available for music when published, if a publisher is involved, now the library has to determine what their cut it, and has to comply with the publishers policies. It just creates more complexity, in my opinion.

Your concerns are valid, I think they help emphasize that it is important that you work with reputable libraries with established success. If you want to have more options, you can choose to work with Non-exclusive libraries... my experience has been that I get far more placements with Exclusive libraries.
I agree with you that in many cases, exclusive is the way to go and the higher level libraries are usually exclusive. But I don't think that's what's is under discussion here. It's the contradiction that (the way I read the listing) the library offers a non-exclusive deal but says your track can't be in other non-exclusive libraries. I'm scratching my head on that one too. I do understand a non-exclusive library not wanting publishing shared by an admin party like TuneCore. But not in other non-exclusive libraries?

Maybe ML can stop by and clarify. (May not be for a while as he's slammed with rally planning).

:D Casey

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Re: S221030CM requiring "We want to be the first who may listen to your work"?

Post by cosmicdolphin » Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:15 am

Yeah the listing text makes no sense.

Also - How are your production costs thousands upon thousands ? They should be reasonably low once you've paid for the initial studio tools no ? :o

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Re: S221030CM requiring "We want to be the first who may listen to your work"?

Post by PDebik » Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:22 am

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:15 am
Also - How are your production costs thousands upon thousands ?
1 good song = 80 hours minimum, rather 120 to 150. Let's assume a poor man's income of max. 20 $/hour that still goes up to approx. 2,400. Not counting singer payments. When you hire a producer from like StudioPros, there full package starts at around 2,000 at the moment. Good singers run anywhere from 300 to 600 $/track on SoundBetter. So whichever way you go: A realistic price tag for a radio-quality full production will end up at least with 2,400. Instrumentals can be less, maybe half of that. But honestly, the work time must be taken into account. I don't want to afford this when there is a very limited perspective to sell it later.

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Re: S221030CM requiring "We want to be the first who may listen to your work"?

Post by Casey H » Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:56 am

PDebik wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:22 am
cosmicdolphin wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:15 am
Also - How are your production costs thousands upon thousands ?
1 good song = 80 hours minimum, rather 120 to 150. Let's assume a poor man's income of max. 20 $/hour that still goes up to approx. 2,400. Not counting singer payments. When you hire a producer from like StudioPros, there full package starts at around 2,000 at the moment. Good singers run anywhere from 300 to 600 $/track on SoundBetter. So whichever way you go: A realistic price tag for a radio-quality full production will end up at least with 2,400. Instrumentals can be less, maybe half of that. But honestly, the work time must be taken into account. I don't want to afford this when there is a very limited perspective to sell it later.
As someone who pays for many of my productions, MUCH less than the numbers you quote here, I can tell you that making back that money is extremely difficult or impossible. Actually, impossible at $2K/song. If you pay for full productions, you have to do it for the love of hearing your songs on TV, not profit, or get out. Not talking paying for a vocalist fee as needed (plenty of great ones for $150 or even less), talking soup to nuts production.

The best ways to address this are (1) Get way better at your home productions to cut down hours required and get the quality where it needs to be. Then hire a vocalist or even collab with a vocalist who will do it for a co-write split. (2) Collaborate. Your best contacts are right here at this forum and at the road rally. Many will here will do the production side, do vocals, etc. for a share. The absolute best folks are in the Taxi community because they 'get' the Film/TV side of the business, the artist sound-like thing etc. Don't be afraid to approach people for collab. Of course, bring something to the table that will peak their interest like a rough take on the song, etc.

Are you going to the road rally? I know you live in Europe and it's expensive but based on what you are shelling out for productions, it would be a great way to use that money.

Best,
:D Casey

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Re: S221030CM requiring "We want to be the first who may listen to your work"?

Post by cosmicdolphin » Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:14 am

PDebik wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:22 am
1 good song = 80 hours minimum, rather 120 to 150.
Too long - For songs I don't think I've ever worked on one for more than a week ..40hrs max
PDebik wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:22 am
Let's assume a poor man's income of max. 20 $/hour that still goes up to approx. 2,400. Not counting singer payments.
That's just sweat equity, I wouldn't count it
PDebik wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:22 am
Not counting singer payments.
Granted but there are always talented singers who will sing for splits
PDebik wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:22 am
When you hire a producer from like StudioPros, there full package starts at around 2,000 at the moment.

I would just do it all myself rather than pay any package deals, and anything specialist like a violin of a trumpet player well there's tons of talented folks who would be delighted with £50 to record a part.
PDebik wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:22 am
A realistic price tag for a radio-quality full production will end up at least with 2,400.

Looking at the listing for original Xmas songs you are speaking about here, this is a track we did a couple of years ago that might fit the listing ( except it's already signed now )

https://youtu.be/KTBFeAc-IGE

But the cost was pretty much zero. Except everyone's time - we didn't pay for anything external. All done between Emma, myself and her Dad who played on it and made the video. All done remotely.

So it can be done. Just a case of having the right tools and knowing the right people with the right skillset.

And instrumentals, you can knock them out in a day for little to no cost as well.

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Re: S221030CM requiring "We want to be the first who may listen to your work"?

Post by PDebik » Thu Oct 13, 2022 4:58 am

Casey H wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:56 am
Are you going to the road rally?
Not this year. I've been concentrating on my orchestra album this year and currently don't have anything new to offer for lib owners.

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Re: S221030CM requiring "We want to be the first who may listen to your work"?

Post by Casey H » Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:27 am

PDebik wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 4:58 am
Casey H wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:56 am
Are you going to the road rally?
Not this year. I've been concentrating on my orchestra album this year and currently don't have anything new to offer for lib owners.
If you are not going to the rally only because you don't have anything new to offer lib owners, you are missing the point. For someone like you who is spending a fortune getting your tracks produced, networking with other Taxi members and peers is the most important part of it all. Get to know peers and future collaborators, that is the key to getting your music done without the huge cost.

I often post here how people should not go to the rally "to be discovered", so to speak. They should go for the education and peer networking. If they make a valuable industry contact, it's a nice bonus which CAN happen but I hate to see people have the wrong expectations.

No guarantees of course. JMHO.

:D Casey

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