Screeners paid NOT to forward music?

[wta]

I've been with taxi now for over 6 months and I've had back a few dozen returns and through them all (I'm not saying all that I've submitted is forward worthy) I'm getting the overwhelming feeling that the screeners have a list of "Don't forward if the music has..." and all they're doing is looking for reasons to not forward the music. There is NO motivation at all for them to forward something that doesn't fit the typical mold and we all know that there are tons of big hits on the charts that would never get through this screener process. What information I do get back is next to useless as they aren't saying they "would forward this song if..." so how do I even know if the song is worth working on? It just seems that they're saying a few nice things BUT ... and thats the end of it. If there is a list for the screeners of "Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list? Also I'd like to encourage Taxi to find some way of rewarding their screeners for forwarding songs otherwise I have to think that the screeners will fall into a rut of not forwarding and have no reason to come out of it, especially if they may loose their jobs for forwarding "non-cookie cutter music" (it's just plain old human nature). wta

[sgs4u]

Bummer man. Sounds like you need to vent. Don't know if this is the best place tho. Most of your comments are kinda big generalities, and are pretty tough to respond to. We all get pissed when stuff isn't forwarded. The learning curve around here can be pretty steep and it looks like you just made a big faceplant. After 2 years (and a few hundred returns), my nose is almost worn off, myself. The one thing I can guarantee you, is that it'll be impossible for you to learn what's not working for you while you're in that frame of mind. The only way the more experienced cats around here could help you is if you post one song, the listing you submitted it to, and the review details. That only works for one song. Every song is a specific situation. After you get reviews on a bunch of tunes, you'll start to see the common themes. another way you could get more in-depth info is by paying for some of the custom critiques for the songs you think are close enough. I think screeners are actually paid not to forward music for a few of key reasons. 1) The song isn't what they think the client is looking for. 2) The song sounds less than the Broadcast Quality standard. 3) The song's lyrics aren't the right subject matter for the client.There are tons of other reasons a screener could be being paid not to forward stuff. The truth is, they're being paid NOT to forward the stuff that isn't good enough, and they are also being paid to forward the GREAT stuff. Your perception of which part of the job they're using on you, is up to you. Comparing hits on the radio to what you think Taxi should be forwarding, is pointless. The standards for fowarding songs, to listings going to artists, are incredibly high. Here's a scenario for you: Imagine yourself as an accomplished artist, and you just wrote and recorded 15 songs for your 3rd record. Now some guy at a label, or your producer says, I want you to listen to this other song here, because it's frikkin awesome... How would you react? What are the odds, that you would actually be willing to pay attention to that song?And how good do you think that song would have to be to impress you enough to put it on your own record, and take one of your songs away? Do you have a better idea of how good songwriter's songs need to be, now?Oct 2, 2008, 8:54am, wta wrote: I've been with taxi now for over 6 months and I've had back a few dozen returns and through them all (I'm not saying all that I've submitted is forward worthy) I'm getting the overwhelming feeling that the screeners have a list of "Don't forward if the music has..." and all they're doing is looking for reasons to not forward the music. There is NO motivation at all for them to forward something that doesn't fit the typical mold and we all know that there are tons of big hits on the charts that would never get through this screener process. What information I do get back is next to useless as they aren't saying they "would forward this song if..." so how do I even know if the song is worth working on? It just seems that they're saying a few nice things BUT ... and thats the end of it. If there is a list for the screeners of "Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list? Also I'd like to encourage Taxi to find some way of rewarding their screeners for forwarding songs otherwise I have to think that the screeners will fall into a rut of not forwarding and have no reason to come out of it, especially if they may loose their jobs for forwarding "non-cookie cutter music" (it's just plain old human nature). wta

[Casey H]

Oct 2, 2008, 8:54am, wta wrote: I've been with taxi now for over 6 months and I've had back a few dozen returns and through them all (I'm not saying all that I've submitted is forward worthy) I'm getting the overwhelming feeling that the screeners have a list of "Don't forward if the music has..." and all they're doing is looking for reasons to not forward the music. There is NO motivation at all for them to forward something that doesn't fit the typical mold and we all know that there are tons of big hits on the charts that would never get through this screener process. What information I do get back is next to useless as they aren't saying they "would forward this song if..." so how do I even know if the song is worth working on? It just seems that they're saying a few nice things BUT ... and thats the end of it. If there is a list for the screeners of "Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list? Also I'd like to encourage Taxi to find some way of rewarding their screeners for forwarding songs otherwise I have to think that the screeners will fall into a rut of not forwarding and have no reason to come out of it, especially if they may loose their jobs for forwarding "non-cookie cutter music" (it's just plain old human nature). wta Hi WTA, nice to meet you... Now I know I risk being written off as a taxi mole, but here goes... Taxi screener do not work with a "do not forward if" list as much as "forward if" list in mind. Yes, in the forward criteria there may be a few absolute no-no's but the concept is that they forward if it closely matches the listing criteria. How closely varies from listing to listing, some are "high bar", some lower.Regarding "fitting the mold", taxi takes listings from the music industry. A large percentage of the time the industry folks are looking for something similar to what is currently successful. That's just the way this business is. If a listing says they want songs that sound like acts A, B, or C, that is "the mold" and the song has to sound like that as far as songwriting and usually production (always if film/TV).If you don't think the feedback on the critiques is adequate, why not call taxi and ask to discuss it? If you peruse these boards you'll see that Robin, the head screener pops in here from time to time and is very committed to taxi customer satisfaction. But don't wait for her to pop in. Give them a call at the 800 number on top of this page.Most people here truly want to help others. If you post 1-2 songs with lyrics and the corresponding WHOLE taxi review, we can offer a lot of feedback and advice.If it turns out that taxi just isn't for you (it's not for everyone), they do offer a money-back guarantee the first year.Best, Casey

[davewalton]

Oct 2, 2008, 8:54am, wta wrote: I've been with taxi now for over 6 months and I've had back a few dozen returns and through them all (I'm not saying all that I've submitted is forward worthy) I'm getting the overwhelming feeling that the screeners have a list of "Don't forward if the music has..." and all they're doing is looking for reasons to not forward the music. There is NO motivation at all for them to forward something that doesn't fit the typical mold and we all know that there are tons of big hits on the charts that would never get through this screener process. What information I do get back is next to useless as they aren't saying they "would forward this song if..." so how do I even know if the song is worth working on? It just seems that they're saying a few nice things BUT ... and thats the end of it. If there is a list for the screeners of "Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list? Also I'd like to encourage Taxi to find some way of rewarding their screeners for forwarding songs otherwise I have to think that the screeners will fall into a rut of not forwarding and have no reason to come out of it, especially if they may loose their jobs for forwarding "non-cookie cutter music" (it's just plain old human nature). wta Hi,HoraceJesse (another forum member) and I took the opportunity to visit Taxi for several days, going through some of the training that screeners go through, poking around, interviewing screeners etc. The only thing that screeners go by in terms of forward/return is the listing itself. They read what we read. There are certain "unwritten rules" but these are generic and not a "Taxi thing". One that comes to mind is proper names. Songs with "Jim", "Bill", "Fred", "Judy" whatever... these are hard to place unless the show or film happens to have a Jim, Bill, Fred, or Judy as one of the characters. Screeners LOVE to send along good music... sitting there all day long and not hearing anything that meets the requirements of the listing... that's the definition of a pure drag. Each listing stands on it's own. If the listing wants "quirky music in a wide variety of styles" then send that. But a listing looking for music "ala" Plain White T's... has to be music that is very much like Plain White T's. If they wanted something different they'd say so.My only advice... take the listing as is. That's what the listing company is looking for and others that are getting forwarded are doing so because they're doing that, not because the screeners don't know what they're doing. I suspect that any problems you've been having are non-music related, only an issue dealing with not getting a good interpretation of the listing.Next listing you're going to submit for, post the listing and a song or two here on the forum. You'll get good feedback in advance... maybe enough to get over the hump. HTH,Dave

[wta]

Guys, thanks for taking the time to comment. I'm really not "in a frame of mind" nor am I "needing to vent" but simply stating an observation. I've been in the industry since I was a kid and I've got a good handle on how A&R works. I'm piecing together what the screeners have said to me and to many others via the reviews on this site. I asked a specific question in my first post that I noticed hasn't been addressed...""Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list?" Where is the criteria for song submissions and genre types? I've looked all through this site and the taxi website and there is no guideline or breakdown. So guys instead of suggesting I need to vent or that taxi isn't right for me, might you consider carefully reading my post and posting if you have something helpful to add. I'd also like it if you could qualify your statements by adding how well your doing with taxi including forwards and licences... I write music that works for the people I play for typically and not for screeners so I just need to know what they're meaning when they ask for a specific genre and what they don't want in the songs. I promise though that if it's not in the benefit for the screener to forward music they will tend to not submit music before they do and that is human nature, period. This isn't personal, its just plain old business. (thanks Dave that was helpful you posted while I was writing the above! Its sounds that there is no continuity at all and each screener is shooting from the hip. How are we to prepare our songs if each screener is reviewing differently?)

[matto]

Hey wta,The screeners are not being paid not to forward music, nor are they paid to forward music...they are paid to screen music.Everything that the screener judges to be on target for the listing and to meet the quality requirements (the "bar") set by the listing party, will be forwarded. Everything that isn't/doesn't will be returned.It's really that simple. There is no hidden agenda.I do however agree with Dave, screeners would much rather forward music than return it (although it may not always seem that way); they are all music industry insiders and are sympathetic to our struggles.As far as "cookie cutter" music, Taxi serves as our conduit to the music industry. If a company asks for cookie cutter music, that's what Taxi will send them. If a company asks for "the weirdest, most mindalteringly original music that would never stand a chance to sell a single copy" , then that's what Taxi will forward.The thing to keep in mind is that it is the music BUSINESS that places these listings, and these companies' ultimate goal is always to make money with your music.HTH,matto

[wta]

matto, this issue the "interpretation" of the listing that the client submits and having a clear definition of what each genre entails and what things the screeners are going to reject a song for as its not clear from screener to screener, as you will see if you go through the posted reviews here on this forum... If I as a writer don't have a clear breakdown on the screeners interpretation of the listing I'll only get forwarded by chance and not by calculation which equals wasted time with is just plain old bad business. wta wta

[matto]

Oct 2, 2008, 10:53am, wta wrote:I asked a specific question in my first post that I noticed hasn't been addressed...""Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list?"No, there is no such list.Quote:Where is the criteria for song submissions and genre types? I've looked all through this site and the taxi website and there is no guideline or breakdown. The genres are the standard genres commonly used in the music industry. Often "a la" artists are used to clarify those genres for people who are not familiar with them. Each set of listing includes, at the very top, a link to samples of the referenced artists. Pretty handy actually...http://www.taxi.com/industry-artists.html

[matto]

Oct 2, 2008, 11:14am, wta wrote: If I as a writer don't have a clear breakdown on the screeners interpretation of the listing I'll only get forwarded by chance and not by calculation which equals wasted time with is just plain old bad business.Hmmm, I'm not sure I understand this. Many of us are forwarded on a very regular basis and we aren't exactly geniuses (although some of us may think so ). We simply read the listings, listen to the "a la" artists provided (via the link above) and figure out if our music fits in that ballpark.Also many people post music in the peer to peer section to get feedback as to whether something may be on target if they need a second opinion (as it may be easier for others to classify our music).HTH.

[billg]

Hey WTA, all you can do as a writer/producer is to submit the best music you can to what you feel like is a good fit for the listing, that IS the calculated part. Everything else IS chance. Heck man, the whole business is a crap shoot (actually, your odds are much better to win in craps). I really hope you didn't think otherwise. Now let's gripe about something meaningful . . . like why screeners tell me my music isn't current enough