Should my paid producer also get co-writers credit/share???

[mojobone]

And Cole Porter, Hoagy Carmichael, even Junior Brown and David Lee Roth, if you're gonna include the whole state and all history. We have a highway named after "Babyface" Edmonds (it's in the water) I was jes' talkin' 'bout the part where the Tippecanoe flows into the Wabash, and just this generation.

[Casey H]

I didn't get a chance to read other responses on this thread.

I've been hiring demo producers for years now and have never had to give co-write credit. They arrange, add licks, change timing and phrasing, occasionally change a chord, etc. That's what I hire them to do. I will sometimes, in our work-for-hire agreement, offer a percentage of master/sync if the song gets placed with a license fee.

If my producer wanted co-write credit for their contributions, I'd be open to it but here is where it gets sticky. If we co-write, do we also share ownership of the master recording? Copyright of a composition and master ownership are not the same thing. When I co-write, I prefer to share in all aspects- composition, master, etc. I find that the most fair, since it's hard to know in what way the song will make money-- master/sync fees, mechanicals, performance royalties, etc.

Let's say the standard demo fee is $600. If the producer is going to share everything with me, do I pay them only $300? It is possible to share the writing but not the master and hence pay the producer the full amount. Personally I find when dealing with libraries, the simpler the splits (same for composition and master), the easier and less likely for things to get messed up.

Any arrangement in the universe is possible. Most important is to get everything agreed to in writing up front.

Casey

[mojobone]

In that case, the master recording is still a work for hire, since you pay him in his role as producer. (how I've always done it) Of course this wouldn't apply, if he's working on spec. (I've done that, too; I don't mind eating the studio time if there's reasonable chance of a sync fee or back end-I do that for me almost all the time) lol

[rnrmachine]

Mojo, you are assuming the guy is extremely talented, obviously... when you have NOTHING to back up that fact.. I am going by what Bridgette wrote, in her posts. A few local people think he is good... that is his reputation...<period> If you don't believe me.. Go back and READ her post.

Why you are slapping names out is beyond me, You are just distorting the issue now. I can name a ton of people from my area too... It don't mean anything. You are guessing, assuming, imagining, fabricating... any or all of those work. I am going by the only facts available.

IF you wrote 6 songs and did a vocal/piano demo for the producer to follow. You know you wouldn't sign that. So why you continue to argue is beyond me.

I am saying this with all due respect for another person,

Rob

[mojobone]

Pretty much said my piece, Rob; now, I'm just making conversation. If it makes you feel any better, please re-read the part where I said, (paraphrasing, here) 'if the language bothers you, have him (the producer) strike it'. If he refuses, or offers excuses, I'd expect Bridgette will go with her gut, as well she should. I read a piece, recently, about Ralph Waldo Emerson and his contention that the way a person perceives the world is the key to his character, and just like with my late father, the older I get, the smarter Ralph gets.

[rnrmachine]

Mojo, I did read that part... you KNOW I did because I sent you a PM about it.

Rob

[mojobone]

Well, that kinda goes to how I perceive the world; I think it's positively loaded with talent. It's possible that some other people think the world is full of people that want to screw them. That ain't the world I live in, and I don't wanna.

[ren]

Bridgette,

I give you props for listening to your gut. And you others, thanks for sharing.

Green Newbie,

Lauren

[Casey H]

This got a little off the track from Bridgett's original question.

Getting back to that, in general, a pure demo producer does not get co-write share. They were paid to do a job as work-for-hire and that fee covers it all. I personally wouldn't give co-write unless I thought there were real contributions to the writing itself.

However, any arrangement that both parties are comfortable with can be made. If the artist agrees to pay full producer/demo price and also give co-write, that's their option. Same applies to publishing.

What's important to remember is ownership of copyright (e.g. the songwriting itself), publishing, and master recording are separate entities. All must be clearly defined. Most of the time with a work-for-hire production like the OP is talking about, the songwriter gets 100% ownership of the master in exchange for the demo fee. If co-write or co-publishing is given, they are separate items from that even if in the same agreement.

Here's how earnings would typically break down based on different arrangements:

Upfront Film/TV License Fees (master/sync): Shared 50/50 by master recording owner(s) and publisher(s). Within a given 50 percent above, splits can be anything. (e.g. master and/or publishing can be owned 75/25 between two parties)

Performance and Mechanical Royalties: Shared 50/50 between writer(s) and publisher(s). Within a given 50 percent above, splits can be anything. (e.g. co-writing and/or publishing can be owned 75/25 between two parties)

As you can see, the dollar splits for earnings can vary a lot depending on who owns what percentage of master, writing, and publishing.

HTH
Casey

[onglee]

what jonathann said.