Snapping to grid and "humanization"

with industry Pro, Nick Batzdorf

Moderators: admin, mdc, TAXIstaff

Post Reply
User avatar
fretman
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:25 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Snapping to grid and "humanization"

Post by fretman » Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:13 am

Hello, I routinely snap to grid during song creation to make things easy to move around, try out new sounds, etc. But once I have the instrumentation the way I like it, I will invoke humanization by moving around the timing and velocity. I do this either manually or with Studio One's built-in humanization feature. My question to the group is how much humanization is a good starting point? Studio One defaults to velocity +/- 15% and timing +/- 0.00.25 (relative to tempo). Is that enough? I would appreciate any guidance or procedures that work for you. For genre, I'd like to stick with acoustic guitar instrumentals or singer-songwriter, but I will listen to anything that works for you. Please treat me as a newbie. Thank you so much for any insight you're willing to share!

Paul

User avatar
RickBourassa
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:10 am
Location: Calgary
Contact:

Re: Snapping to grid and "humanization"

Post by RickBourassa » Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:37 pm

If sounds good, it is good. :D

I have a tendency to reply on the grid a little too much. I also find that if I a a bit of swing to the performance, it sounds a little more human.

You may want to post a link to something you have created and ask for feedback in the Peer to Peer forum.

User avatar
jdstamper
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 1547
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:40 am
Gender: Male
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Re: Snapping to grid and "humanization"

Post by jdstamper » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:38 pm

Yeah it just depends what works best in the song. When I quantize I normally do it at about 75% and I might have it push the beat several ticks if that part calls for pushing. If I use some sort of automated humanize then I'd normally try to vary it somewhat on each track so it's even more human.

Jim
Jim Stamper
Production Music ... from Underscore to Overdrive
https://www.taxi.com/members/jimstamper

superblonde
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Snapping to grid and "humanization"

Post by superblonde » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:21 am

From watching many other producers it seems that 10-15% random variation in timing is about the max which is used. Each DAW has unique algorithms for these. That does not seem like enough for velocity though. Drums for example being used at max of 127 for hard hits and 70 for intermezzo or off-beat hits, is a significant variation. It depends on the samples though.

I imagine an expressive piano piece ranging from 50-60 to 100-110 velocity throughout. Maybe that is where the settings become genre-specific.

The bummer is when someone puts a compressor over top of all of it anyway, and all the hard work of improving subtle dynamics is squashed.
. . . www.superblonde.org "All Kale Seitan! ♭II ‼" -Moshpit Chant of the Vegan Metalhead

MarkAnthonyDolin
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:47 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Snapping to grid and "humanization"

Post by MarkAnthonyDolin » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:58 pm

I have only used it some as a noob, but I think that it depends largely on genre. Of course it can be used to clean up a sloppy performance too. Current pop (or even 80's) pop all sounds 100% quantized to me and that works for the genre. Americana, s/songwriter not so much. Right? I like this topic (just rejoined Taxi yesterday)
Peace!
Mark

User avatar
NMN
Active
Active
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 2:59 pm
Gender: Male
Location: MI
Contact:

Re: Snapping to grid and "humanization"

Post by NMN » Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:32 pm

Hello Fretman, my approach usually is this:
  • Compose the MIDI track with a first recording
  • Practice it for a while until I think that it sounds good
  • Record the MIDI while listening to the click track and/or to rest of the instruments by playing it on the keyboard
  • Adjust individual notes if the velocity or timing is off
  • Add or remove notes as needed

That way I can retain the humanization factor for midi tracks and then polish them up a bit afterwards as needed.

Sometimes I want that quantized, electronic sound so I either click the quantize button or draw in the notes on the grid. However, if I then try to go back and add velocity changes and timing changes to quantized tracks, I usually don't get a fully natural sounding result. Hope that helps!

User avatar
CEMundt
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:25 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Youngstown, OH
Contact:

Re: Snapping to grid and "humanization"

Post by CEMundt » Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:30 am

I find it helps a TON if you already play the instrument to some degree. I don’t mean that you have to actually record the part, but rather think about it in the context of quantized clips or something written solely in the piano roll.

Take a straight quarter note 3 note chord progression with a piano patch, written solely using the mouse and piano roll. How would your hand play each chord? It most certainly would not put all fingers down at the EXACT same moment with the same velocity. Different notes have individual tendencies depending on how a human would play them. If you jump from low register to a high-register block chord, the top note (or bottom note depending on your taste) would probably be played first and with a higher velocity. You would be “aiming” for that note. It would sound more realistic if you pulled the other notes back a few ms, keeping in mind how a pro player would let their hand drop. This takes forever to do right, but it can turn out great. Using a little (not much) of a velocity randomizer can be nice as well when used after the “humanization” technique I described above.

These fancy virtual instruments have all kinds of tools that help out as well. Even as a bassist, I like to use bass guitar libraries that allow you to choose strings and registers. Knowing the tendencies of an instrument, even just in theory, helps immensely.

For example, I wrote a jazz piano tune solely in the roll, no midi controller and I’ve had a number of pros compliment me on my keys playing. If only they knew…

SoundCloud doesn't want to let me post a widget today, so you can check it out this technique on my Taxi or SoundCloud profile. Look for “Samba For Pam”.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests