Songs rejected because the lyrics rhyme too well

[euromantix]

Is anyone else getting a bit fed up with the ever increasing amount of returns, with the main reason being that the song uses too many predictable rhymes? Isn't the whole idea of a rhyme that it sounds like it belongs, i.e. predictable or expected? Rhyme has been the bedrock of music and poetry since the beginning of recorded time! But recently Taxi reviewers seem to be frowning upon this 'trend'. Apparently I need to rerecord my entire catalogue of previously forwarded songs, changing all the lyrics to 'non-obvious rhymes' and 'rhymes that don't sound like a rhyme e.g. 'sheep' and 'sweet''. Er, hello?With the example below, 3 reference songs were given by Taxi, all of which use blindingly predictable, obvious rhymes - often the exact same word in fact. Yet my songs submitted to those reference songs, were rejected for doing what the reference songs do. So what is the point of a reference song if we cannot use it to match our song to as a reference? Do the end consumers really worry about whether a rhyme has been done before when they hear a catchy song on the radio or in the background of a TV show? Do they worry that we use the same 12 notes that have been used before?I don't believe Taxi reviewers are being realistic with such seemingly bizarre demands. I hope somebody can have a word to the reviewer(s) (#300/306/309) who seem to keep rejecting songs that used to get forwards, because they use tried and tested rhyming patterns.Here are direct examples of the alleged "common, predictable rhyming patterns":"In Your Web" You’re so good with your hands I’m sureYou got eight of ‘em maybe moreThe female eats her mate – that’s trueNow let me make a start on youThe male species where I’m lying’sDeadlier ‘cause boy I’m dyingIn your bed – from silk it’s spunNow let’s get stuck down to some funI’m chained down – I can’t move – so helplesslyI’m strapped up – I can’t breathe – but don’t help meI’m the prey IN YOUR WEB – bound I can’t moveAs I lay on your bed I got nothing to loseWill I survive or will you eat me aliveCome get it boy – yeah I’ll feed you tonightI’m the prey IN YOUR WEB – naked and smoothAs I lay in your bed y’got nothing to proveWill I survive or will you eat me aliveSo come get it boy – yeah I’ll feed you tonightI’ll be your new toy – come play with me boyI’ll be your victim so come sink your teeth in to meY’see I want it and I need youCome here baby let me feed youThat’s it honey nice and slowlyNow hold tight and don’t let go o’meN’matter how I twist and turnHere comes the point of no returnNerves on edge feel every threadAnd then too late I’ve lost my headIn-a-poem along came a spiderThat crept along and lay beside herBut don’t you frighten me away‘Cause I want you to always stay with meCommon? Predictable? REALLY? Just how common are lyrics about spiders and rhymes like "eat me alive / feed you tonight"?!Listing:S090604POFEMALE POP SONGS a la Kylie Minogue, Sugarbabes, Madonna, etc. are sought after by the Sr. Director of A&R at a Major U.K. label for a hugely successful female artist. Think of songs such as Minogue's "Can't Get You Out of My Head", "Fever" and Madonna's "Open Your Heart" for reference as to the sound this Exec is looking for. Songs must sound current and radio ready. Catchy hooks are always very important. This is a high-bar listing, so we will have to be very selective. Demo presentation must sound great with top-notch instrumental and vocal performances.Song:'In Your Web'www.taxi.com/euromantix(I also submitted 'About You' and 'Tonight', both also rejected for using rhyming lyrics)Review:Unfortunately the use of common, predictable rhyming patterns is even more pervasive within this lyric. I'm afraid you'll need to dig a bit deeper to find ways around this. One method some of the writers I've worked with have employed--and this may work for you--is to never be satisfied with the first rhyme that pops into their heads. They tend to question something that comes too easily. They may end up using it but they'll usually question it first and dig a bit deeper to find an alternative.[I don't think this reviewer has taken a moment to consider that there are no 'second rhymes' for a lot of this spider material!]Thanks for the chance to review these songs, I enjoyed listening. I've gone into more depth about the nuts and bolts of your work in my individual song comments over to the left. Hopefully you'll find some ideas there which you can use. Keep writing and best of luck to you!Listener ID # 306Let's look at some of the rhyming lyrics of the above reference songs:"Can't Get You Out of My Head"La la la la la la la la La la la la la la la la La la la la la la la la La la la la la la la la I just can't get you out of my head Boy your lovin is all I think about I just can't get you out of my head Boy it's more than I dare to think about Stay forever And ever and ever and ever "Fever" [strangely similar to my submitted song]I've been bitten by the bug and now I am coming down with ohSomething that can't be curedThere aint a doctor in this town who is more qualified than youYeah to be so adoredSo tell me what do you prescribe for these symptomsA heart beating faster and work is a disasterI'm lovesick when you're not aroundCheck me overWhen strong hands and healingI'm dancing on the ceilingFever sure has got me goodWhat you do when fever takes holdI can't help but need this drugDon't you feel the fever like I doFeel the feverI am ready for the news so tell me straightHey doctor just what do you diagnoseThere aint a surgeon like you any place in all the worldSo now, shall I remove my clothes"Open Your Heart"I see you on the street and you walk on byYou make me wanna hang my head down and cryIf you gave me half a chance you'd seeMy desire burning inside of meBut you choose to look the other wayI've had to work much harder than thisFor something I want don't try to resistOpen your heart to me, babyI hold the lock and you hold the keyOpen your heart to me, darlin'I'll give you love if you, you turn the keyI think that you're afraid to look in my eyesYou look a little sad boy, I wonder whyI follow you around but you can't seeYou're too wrapped up in yourself to noticeSo you choose to look the other wayWell, I've got something to sayDon't try to run I can keep up with youNothing can stop me from trying, you've got toI personally think it is indefensible for Taxi to reject 3 songs because they use tried and tested rhyming patterns, and with very unique subject matter and actual word usage, when the exact reference songs use blindingly obvious rhymes throughout. Kylie rhymes 'about' with 'about' and Madonna rhymes 'key' with 'key'. I am criticised for rhyming 'spider' to 'beside her' for example. I feel I was bang on target for this listing as per the reference songs given, and maintain that this reviewer(s) are letting personal taste cloud their judgement of what would otherwise have been on-target songs that got forwarded. I know this because the reason given for return was that the lyrics were too 'obvious'.Someone at Taxi, please have a word with these reviewers. I feel I am losing multiple 5 dollars due to one or two reviewer's personal and slightly uncommon tastes. It would also restore my faith in Taxi somewhat if these songs were resubmitted into the review system, once reviewers have been briefed about these contradictory reviews. I am currently of a mind not to renew my subscription, even though I have been one of your best customers, due to what I feel are ever increasingly inaccurate reviews. This system needs to be policed much better, as Taxi is - I feel - losing credibility with continued wrong returns, which doesn't help any of us.

[tower888]

I currently write primarily instrumentals, so I haven't had any songs rejected by Taxi for rhyming yet... But I was thinking about a similar topic earlier today while listening to the radio...Kid Rock's latest hit song, "All Summer Long" actually contains the lines:And we were trying different thingsWe were smoking funny thingsThat's right, he actually rhymed "things" with "things"! Ha ha! That song plays all day and night on radio stations across the country. Your rhyme scheme is definitely better than that.

[Casey H]

Hi CJEverything is relative to the listing and the genre. I remember this song of yours from a few years back-- I haven't heard it in quite a while. I do recall it was a good song, possibly a Britney type track. (But my memory is fuzzy) ... Post a link if you can so we can hear it. However, whether or not you can get away with some cliche rhymes depends a lot on the target.... e.g. you would never get away with these rhymes in a country artist pitch. Also, the "bar" is different for different listings. What was the listing? If you post the listing, link to the song, and the whole review I will tell you what I think FWIW. Best,Casey

[euromantix]

Thanks guys. I hadn't included the review as it was more of a general point and this 'rhyme' complaint has come up for a number of pop listings, but since you ask, I have edited my first post with just one example of such listing, along with some further comments comparing the reference song lyrics to mine.

[Casey H]

Hi CJThanks for posting more info. I remember "In Your Web" very well now! I always thought it would be a good film/TV replacement track along the lines of Britney's "Slave 4 U" or similar.Regarding this return... I'm assuming the reviewer said that the PRIMARY reason for return was the lyrical rhymes. Yes, the rhymes used in your song are very cliche, but so are the ones in the reference songs. I also find that reviewing lyrics only by reading (not saying that's what the screener did here!), doesn't always work because what reads as cliche sometimes sounds great in song. On listen to "In Your Web", I don't find I really notice the rhymes, I'm focused on the whole picture.Also, the reference songs are not that current which makes this a little tougher. But read on...That being said, the listing was clear that it was "high bar" and they would be very selective. Usually that means something has to be top notch to get forwarded. When looking for top-notch from outside writers, the double standard is there and reviewers and A&R look for extremely creative songwriting. They want to see songwriting that goes way beyond what they already can get so they will often give thumbs down on "blue/you", "moon/june" type rhymes. This listing is for a major label player who has thousands of submissions on his desk, many from known writers. What can you bring him that's BETTER?As an aside, this reminds me a little of what I heard at the recent Nashville panel. Although, that was about country music, the concept is the same. GREAT songs were played for the panel of A&R execs. But they came back with, "It's not better than what I already have". That was pretty educational and I think helpful to writers of ALL genres.You have keep in mind exactly what this listing was. If it were for a film/TV track of a certain style, it might have been a forward.I know this is a tough one because you have a very good track. I don't think many would say otherwise. It's just a matter of matching to the right opportunity.I may be similar to you in this way. I have a number of good songs already produced and ready. Most of my submissions are from that batch. From what I see, the most successful people with taxi are those that are writing new tracks all the time, many tailored to listings. Taxi's reviews are designed to help you become a better writer for future submissions. If you rely too much on an existing catalog, and those aren't getting forwarded much, the value-add for your dollar is not as good. Generating new material, whether new or re-write, is the way to make Taxi work best for you. I know that's not easy with production expenses unless you are a one-man home studio. I also suggest you contact taxi directly about your concerns and frustrations. Not so much about returns on specific listings, but things in general. Michael and his staff always seem willing to talk with members about their concerns. Best of luck and hang in there! I've heard some great tunes from you! PM or email me if I can help in any way. Best,Casey

[euromantix]

Taxi have replied to the issue, but have failed to address the concerns or my complaint whatsoever. I am therefore none the wiser as to why the only reason given for the return was that I used obvious rhyming patterns, whilst the reference songs also did so.Taxi stated, "If you insist on second guessing every return ... we unfortunately will be forced to terminate the relationship and discontinue your membership with TAXI."I have had about 200 returns in my many years of membership, and have questioned, I think 5 of them = 0.25%. For them to say I am questioning "every return" is worrying. I am being told that if I continue to use the 'review corner' for its intended purpose, I will be 'terminated'. Is this what we expect from a professional company, or would it have shown more courage if Taxi had admitted that this reviewer had got it wrong when giving his reasons for the return?

[slotter]

Wow! That's kinda heavy! Did Taxi really say that?? That's not very pro... this is a paid service, you PAID for this.. hhmm.I seem to remember having a return mentioning the rhyming thing too, but there were other issues too, so I didn't follow it up. But I must admit, sometimes Taxi give you references and then reviewers will go totally against these in their critiques, leaving you totally confused!Sometimes, an artist gets to the point where it doesn't mater what the hell they sing/write.. people will swallow it because of the name. I've seen videos of Al Jareau singing so out of tune it's embarrasing and people are loving it. You try singing like that and getting Taxi to forward it! I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe it's that... you are not (and I'm not) Kylie or Britney, so we can't get away with the same shit they get away with. The majority of the music buying public are like sheep, they eat what they are fed, as long as it has a NAME attatched to it.Anyway, I'm babbling now.. Hope you get this sorted.

[euromantix]

Thanks for the support. Yes, Taxi really did say that, and I agree, it is confusing when they reject songs for reasons that made the reference songs what they are. I don't think it'll get sorted as Taxi have warned me not to pursue it. I'm not really sure what the answer is either, as Taxi don't want to explain why the reason given for return completely contradicted the reference songs.

[taxirobin]

Hi all,In reading over this thread, I'd like to make sure that things are clear. It can be misleading to post excerpts from a critique or private email and then use that excerpt to argue a point as CJ is doing here. The guidelines for the Review Corner section read "If you complain about a review you got from TAXI, then you have to post the ENTIRE review you are complaining about (that includes the part that states WHY YOU WERE NOT FORWARDED), along with the listing you submitted to, and THEN, heres the catch, you have to allow other members to review the song in the same format as TAXI did." Because CJ has not provided the entire critique, the listing info, or a link to the songs, you, the members of the forum, have not really had an opportunity to decide for yourselves whether the submission was on target for the listing or whether the screener gave useful, accurate feedback. It's not my place to post those links; it's up to CJ. However, since he has posted a portion of my private email, I feel you should be allowed to read the complete message. Here it is:===================Dear CJ, I am going to keep this brief. I have listened to your submission for listing S090604PO and I agree with the screener’s comments. Casey H. gave you excellent feedback on the forum and said many of the things I would say. In particular, for a high bar pitch to an artist, you have to beat what the artist can write themselves or write with a producer. The three songs you submitted don’t reach that level. I know you would like TAXI to offer second opinions, but we simply don’t offer that service. I have given you a lot of extra feedback when answering your queries regarding returns on previous listings but I cannot continue to provide additional feedback on every returned submission. It is unfair to other TAXI members -- my time must be shared among all. We would like you to remain a member because you have talent and potential. If you insist on second guessing every return however, we unfortunately will be forced to terminate the relationship and discontinue your membership with TAXI.==========================I just want to close this post by saying that it's important for all of us to work together to ensure that the staff and screeners can provide useful feedback for everyone. The forum is an excellent place to get additional feedback but it, too, needs to be used in a way that works for all. I am SO impressed by the feedback that's provided on this forum and the time that the members take to respond to postings in a thoughtful, supportive way. I would urge everyone to respect the forum by following the guidelines and using the feedback to help you move forward with your careers. Everyone at TAXI wants to see you be successful and achieve your goals! RobinScreener-in-chiefTAXI

[euromantix]

I do not want this to run and run - I'd rather be spending the time recording material that I can pitch based on the reference songs Taxi ask me for. However I am now hesitant to do so, for the reasons stated previously about double standards over contradictory reference songs.Robin's reply does nothing to answer the criticism of the review, and seems only to muddy the waters with insinuations that I have been misleading. In the interests of complete clarity therefore:Robin states that I did not include the listing info, or a link to the song. I did. I am not sure why Robin cannot see this info on his screen - it appears find on mine, and I suspect yours, and has been in the first post of this thread for many days.Robin states that I did not provide the entire critique. I provided 99.9% of it, but omitted the very brief 'reason you were not forwarded' partly as it just repeated what the review I posted already said, and partly as the summary included a comment about a song I did not include here as I sent 3 songs to this listing, and I am only referring to 1 song here. To have included a summary that referred to songs I was not querying, would have confused the key point and I always like to be crystal clear. Here is the very brief reason given and all that I 'omitted': "Afraid these needed further lyrical and melodic development." Does that really add much? The "melodic" critique refers solely to another of the 3 songs where my melody was mentioned - it would have confused the issue to mention that here about a separate song. "Lyrical" however is the key point and refers to the song that is the subject of this thread, 'In Your Web'. To completely clarify, I included the complete review of In Your Web in my first post, and at no point was the "melodic development" critiqued there. The melody of this song is not in question.Bringing this back on point, Taxi have rejected this song because it uses obvious rhyming patterns. The reference songs also use obvious rhyming patterns. It is fundamentally wrong to ask someone to pay $5 to forward a song that uses obvious rhyming patterns, and then reject it because it uses obvious rhyming patterns. End of story.