A square peg looking for a round hole

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swdaze
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A square peg looking for a round hole

Post by swdaze » Tue May 11, 2021 9:04 am

:? :P

Hi guys little back story. I'm older and because of hand injuries I haven't been able to write for a couple of years now but no biggie I'm polishing up finished material and going through my unfinished stuff and doing rewrites. I will try and get a more modern targeted sound with the rewrites but for the more finished material I'm not. I will do production changes, drop/add tracks but I'm not rerecording guitar/vocal parts (the 4 of us are spread over 4 states I can't do quick turnarounds).

Now I accept the limitations this presents me with submissions but here's my theory. If you shave the corners off a square peg you have an octagon. While not perfect an octagon is a better fit in a round hole than a square, there are smaller gaps. ;)

So any help identifying the round hole I should target and suggestions on how to shave off a corner or two would be greatly appreciated!! :lol:

Geo

This tune was written late 80's maybe but rewritten a few years back. If I were guessing I would say "ALT POP"?

QUITTING TIME
https://www.taxi.com/members/kFrx_Q6OQc ... tting-time
A square peg can be an elegant solution to a round hole

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Re: A square peg looking for a round hole

Post by philipmojbro » Tue May 11, 2021 9:31 am

Listening on a laptop speakers, so I can't say much about the mix. However, this sounds great to me. However, the risk is high that the what they're looking for is a modern take and it sounds a little dated. Perhaps they will run listings matching that song, though? That said I think it sounds great. Great song and vibe. Love the reggae back beat groove.

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Re: A square peg looking for a round hole

Post by swdaze » Tue May 11, 2021 9:48 am

philipmojbro wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:31 am
Listening on a laptop speakers, so I can't say much about the mix. However, this sounds great to me. However, the risk is high that the what they're looking for is a modern take and it sounds a little dated. Perhaps they will run listings matching that song, though? That said I think it sounds great. Great song and vibe. Love the reggae back beat groove.
Thanks for the listen!

So is it the cadence of the vocals take gives it the dated feel? Or production? Left to my own devices my production normally sounds early 90's.

I will drop it on any listing with the combination of "reggae" and "male vocals" ;)

Super stoked you enjoyed it!!

Thanks again!! Geo
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Re: A square peg looking for a round hole

Post by philipmojbro » Tue May 11, 2021 10:37 am

Listening on headphones now, so a little easier to judge the sound.

Again, I just want to preface this by underlining that I really think this sounds superb. Both in terms of songwriting, performance, production and mixing to me. I could never write anything this musical myself. However, it does sound dated to me, probably because it is. :-) It reminds me of Sting / Police. I am not sure what modern reggae sounds like exactly, but I do know modern pop pretty well. To my ears it sounds dated both in terms of production and in terms of melody / cadence. However, a lot of old classics have been covered with modern production and it works very well. I think melody is much more universal and timeless than production, although there are definitely trends in melody.

So, how would I attack this song if I made a remix or made a "modern pop cover" of it? Not saying I would do it well, but...

Starting out the guitar riff, I would try to make it more interesting by manipulating it a little. Perhaps low-pass filtering it and opening it up later. In general I would be very careful to let things go in to the frequency range where the vocal sits and keep the track simpler and out of the vocal. I probably wouldn't keep the sax. I love the sax, but I am not exactly sure how to make it sound modern. (There are some EDM songs with sax, but... I think it's complicated). The drums already feel programmed, but I'd look for other samples for kick and snare, or maybe just pitch the snare down a little. I'd look for a different hi hat sample too, or make it move a little more by varying its length or something. I'd make sure the kick, snare and bass sound so cool together that them alone would be a good track. Then I'd add a few elements and probably tuck them back a little more in the mix than you've done. I'd probably also use sidechain for certain elements to make things (such as the hihat, perhaps a synth or so) duck when the kick hits. It's nice to use reverb on an element in the background and make it duck with the kick, it instantly places the track in the "modern" or at least "somewhat modern" era. Hmm.

As for vocals, I'd probably record doubles of the lead vocal for at least the chorus and time them very tightly to the lead vocal and pan them hard left and right and tuck them in behind the main vocal for a bigger lead sound.

I'd probably also add some "ear candy" effects such as a small chop of the vocal being echoed in the background etc. These small chops can be filtered very tightly with a band pass filter, perhaps distorted a little, drowned in reverb and tucked in the background. Only let them pop up here and there for effect. Don't overdo it.

Can you send me some stems and let me have a stab at remixing or reproducing it? At least a part of it. Would be interesting to see how it turns out.

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Re: A square peg looking for a round hole

Post by philipmojbro » Tue May 11, 2021 10:42 am

Here are a couple of pop songs I've made (but not finished any of them) recently to show you the kind of pop I know. It's quite different to what you're showing up, so take too much of my advice actually. I'd probably just destroy your song.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5alsy27utdi4 ... s.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwp6eselggfy7 ... 5.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9wxaduw8rvui5 ... 9.mp3?dl=0

Honestly I love what you're doing way better, but I don't have the skills to make real music like yours :-)

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Re: A square peg looking for a round hole

Post by swdaze » Tue May 11, 2021 11:29 am

philipmojbro wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:37 am
Listening on headphones now, so a little easier to judge the sound.

Again, I just want to preface this by underlining that I really think this sounds superb. Both in terms of songwriting, performance, production and mixing to me. I could never write anything this musical myself. However, it does sound dated to me, probably because it is. :-) It reminds me of Sting / Police. I am not sure what modern reggae sounds like exactly, but I do know modern pop pretty well. To my ears it sounds dated both in terms of production and in terms of melody / cadence. However, a lot of old classics have been covered with modern production and it works very well. I think melody is much more universal and timeless than production, although there are definitely trends in melody.

So, how would I attack this song if I made a remix or made a "modern pop cover" of it? Not saying I would do it well, but...

Starting out the guitar riff, I would try to make it more interesting by manipulating it a little. Perhaps low-pass filtering it and opening it up later. In general I would be very careful to let things go in to the frequency range where the vocal sits and keep the track simpler and out of the vocal. I probably wouldn't keep the sax. I love the sax, but I am not exactly sure how to make it sound modern. (There are some EDM songs with sax, but... I think it's complicated). The drums already feel programmed, but I'd look for other samples for kick and snare, or maybe just pitch the snare down a little. I'd look for a different hi hat sample too, or make it move a little more by varying its length or something. I'd make sure the kick, snare and bass sound so cool together that them alone would be a good track. Then I'd add a few elements and probably tuck them back a little more in the mix than you've done. I'd probably also use sidechain for certain elements to make things (such as the hihat, perhaps a synth or so) duck when the kick hits. It's nice to use reverb on an element in the background and make it duck with the kick, it instantly places the track in the "modern" or at least "somewhat modern" era. Hmm.

As for vocals, I'd probably record doubles of the lead vocal for at least the chorus and time them very tightly to the lead vocal and pan them hard left and right and tuck them in behind the main vocal for a bigger lead sound.

I'd probably also add some "ear candy" effects such as a small chop of the vocal being echoed in the background etc. These small chops can be filtered very tightly with a band pass filter, perhaps distorted a little, drowned in reverb and tucked in the background. Only let them pop up here and there for effect. Don't overdo it.

Can you send me some stems and let me have a stab at remixing or reproducing it? At least a part of it. Would be interesting to see how it turns out.
I would like that!! Not that tech savvy but can normally figure it out. I use LOGIC what do you need?
A square peg can be an elegant solution to a round hole

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Re: A square peg looking for a round hole

Post by swdaze » Tue May 11, 2021 11:33 am

philipmojbro wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:42 am
Here are a couple of pop songs I've made (but not finished any of them) recently to show you the kind of pop I know. It's quite different to what you're showing up, so take too much of my advice actually. I'd probably just destroy your song.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5alsy27utdi4 ... s.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwp6eselggfy7 ... 5.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9wxaduw8rvui5 ... 9.mp3?dl=0

Honestly I love what you're doing way better, but I don't have the skills to make real music like yours :-)
Dude I dig "Hate You", made me smile. OK I laughed but in a good way. ;)
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Re: A square peg looking for a round hole

Post by philipmojbro » Tue May 11, 2021 11:41 am

Thank you!

I’ll send you a private message

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Re: A square peg looking for a round hole

Post by Zaychi » Thu May 13, 2021 2:27 am

Yeah it sounds very retro... I got flashbacks of bands like the Specials/Madness/the Beat, bands I hadn't thought about for years. So "ska" or "reggae" would fit better than "Alt pop" to my ears; but yeah I didn't see a listing for that in the year I've been a member now, so upping the production to "modern ska" might not make a difference for a triangular peg anyway?

I'd agree with dropping the sax, or at least make it sparser throughout the track.

I think the track also needs a bit more development, the verse/choruses don't change all too much and in the end it gets a bit of a "it just goes on and on" feeling...

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Re: A square peg looking for a round hole

Post by AudiniAudio » Sun May 16, 2021 4:49 am

Before the male lead I thought SADE a bit. The sax for sure.

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