talented vs untalented singers

[melodymessiah]

found this on youtube. i totally agree with the poster. what do YOU think?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfo27_m ... ex=24&t=3s

[charlie2]

I dont believe in talent and non talent.

It's just how well we train ourselves.

Those who sing bad are untrained and dont do their practice.
When they do their practice they become talented.

Check out developing a growth mindset by carol dweck.

In fact, after reading linda ronstadt's book, simple dreams , I saw she had this mindset when she was developing her voice and act.

[hummingbird]

I agree with Charlie. I'm a voice teacher and I have worked with many students most would think are hopelessly tone deaf and/or 'untalented' and in my experience, those who persevere and do the work find beautiful voices inside. "This is Your Brain on Music" is a good book on this sort of topic.

[cosmicdolphin]

I dont believe in talent and non talent.

It's just how well we train ourselves.

Those who sing bad are untrained and dont do their practice.
When they do their practice they become talented.

Yeah don't 100% agree with you there.

Whilst I agree that what a lot of people perceive as " talent " is actually a lot of hard work in the background that is unseen , as someone who trained virtually every day for at least an hour and often more over the course of 7yrs to be a better singer I still don't sing well enough to sing my own songs to pitch to Libraries.

So what is the difference between myself who put in thousands of hours ( and not inconsiderable expense I might add ) and someone like my niece, who has never had a lesson in her life and yet has a nice singing voice ?

When it comes to voice I don't believe we are all created equal.

[hummingbird]

Whilst I agree that what a lot of people perceive as " talent " is actually a lot of hard work in the background that is unseen , as someone who trained virtually every day for at least an hour and often more over the course of 7yrs to be a better singer I still don't sing well enough to sing my own songs to pitch to Libraries.

So what is the difference between myself who put in thousands of hours ( and not inconsiderable expense I might add ) and someone like my niece, who has never had a lesson in her life and yet has a nice singing voice ?

When it comes to voice I don't believe we are all created equal.

That's interesting. It took me about 8 years to find my voice (and 12 years to be able to sing without fear in front of people), I invested a lot in lessons but it was more than just technique, I had to come to understand how my habits and programming interfered with my voice and work to 'get myself out of the way' in order to sing effectively. I don't often pitch songs I have recorded myself because the pop people think I sound like an opera singer and the opera people think I sound like a pop singer, and sometimes people say 'you don't have to sing your own songs you can hire a singer' and that's just... yeah well, true but... what's the point eh
I generally write songs for myself and pitch instrumentals.

[Kolstad]

Another thing beyond the talent vs non talent discussion is that your voice may suit particular styles, and that you may not know or like these styles. This is why it can take a lot of work to discover your voice as a singer. You may like heavy metal, but the voice you can succeed singing with can only do Broadway musicals. You may love jazz, but the voice you can become good at may only be able to do classic country. That type of discovery can be hard, and you may not want to be able to sing in the style your voice lend itself to..

[cosmicdolphin]

That's interesting. It took me about 8 years to find my voice (and 12 years to be able to sing without fear in front of people), I invested a lot in lessons but it was more than just technique, I had to come to understand how my habits and programming interfered with my voice and work to 'get myself out of the way' in order to sing effectively. I don't often pitch songs I have recorded myself because the pop people think I sound like an opera singer and the opera people think I sound like a pop singer, and sometimes people say 'you don't have to sing your own songs you can hire a singer' and that's just... yeah well, true but... what's the point eh
I generally write songs for myself and pitch instrumentals.

It IS interesting for sure

I can't face singing in front of people either, although I do like working on songs in my studio and my voice has undoubtedly improved over those years of training but there's a lot more too it than just being on pitch. I'm a pretty quiet character and I'm not very animated. Like to keep my feelings to myself which is probably no good for trying to connect to a song / audience.

I've decided after all those years that I just don't have the right type of personality for it, i can't be open and expressive in the way my teachers have asked as I just find it all terribly embarrassing. Like you I'll do instrumentals or songs for others to sing or just for me to work on in the studio. Don't let it put you off getting someone else to sing them if they are for licensing though , it's quite something to hear someone with a license friendly voice portray your song in a way you can't.

Mark

[hummingbird]

Another thing beyond the talent vs non talent discussion is that your voice may suit particular styles, and that you may not know or like these styles. This is why it can take a lot of work to discover your voice as a singer. You may like heavy metal, but the voice you can succeed singing with can only do Broadway musicals. You may love jazz, but the voice you can become good at may only be able to do classic country. That type of discovery can be hard, and you may not want to be able to sing in the style your voice lend itself to..

That is an excellent point.

[hummingbird]

That's interesting. It took me about 8 years to find my voice (and 12 years to be able to sing without fear in front of people), I invested a lot in lessons but it was more than just technique, I had to come to understand how my habits and programming interfered with my voice and work to 'get myself out of the way' in order to sing effectively. I don't often pitch songs I have recorded myself because the pop people think I sound like an opera singer and the opera people think I sound like a pop singer, and sometimes people say 'you don't have to sing your own songs you can hire a singer' and that's just... yeah well, true but... what's the point eh
I generally write songs for myself and pitch instrumentals.

It IS interesting for sure

I can't face singing in front of people either, although I do like working on songs in my studio and my voice has undoubtedly improved over those years of training but there's a lot more too it than just being on pitch. I'm a pretty quiet character and I'm not very animated. Like to keep my feelings to myself which is probably no good for trying to connect to a song / audience.

I've decided after all those years that I just don't have the right type of personality for it, i can't be open and expressive in the way my teachers have asked as I just find it all terribly embarrassing. Like you I'll do instrumentals or songs for others to sing or just for me to work on in the studio. Don't let it put you off getting someone else to sing them if they are for licensing though , it's quite something to hear someone with a license friendly voice portray your song in a way you can't.

Mark

You've instinctively hit on something... being open and animated, willing to take a risk and be an introverted person doing an extraverted activity is a challenge. I was lucky that I met a teacher who had won the Metropolitan Opera Auditions twice, but who was a terrified singer and recognized me as such. I'd already been training for 5 or 6 years but my voice was still trapped inside. He gently helped me, over the years that followed, understand that what I thought was 'open' was actually really very closed. At some point I began to feel that even if I never sang anywhere, the work was a form of therapy and although I struggled with it (and often thought of quitting), if I kept going, maybe, bit by bit, it would be an answer. And it was. I found my passion... helping other shy people to find their voices and sing. That gave my life meaning. I am walking other paths now, working on film scoring and orchestral composition as well as library music... I still have a few students (less during this pandemic), they are the light of my life.

Been a great discussion

[cosmicdolphin]

Been a great discussion

So glad it's not just me ! My favourite teacher ( who I think was actually very good ) kept saying there was something holding me back. It's probably fear

..I'll have to read that book thanks