Taxi Country Cuts ?

[cameron]

OK, as I was typing this I see Jay made a similar point. I was going to ask whether Taxi is too fussy about which songs they forward? I'm pretty familiar with most of the country songwriters here, at least those on the forum, and like Jay, I can't honestly say I've heard a #1 song out of any of us yet, but I've definitely heard a lot that are good enough to be album cuts. In fact, a whole lot of them are better than most of the songs on the George Strait and Gary Allan CDs I bought recently, including some of mine that have never had a Taxi forward.We've all received critiques that say something like "I love the second verse" and then another on the same song that says "I would rewrite the second verse". In other words, it's subjective. So wouldn't it be better if the screeners forwarded songs that they feel are quality even though they feel a particular song may have some faults? I fear that too often songs get rejected by a screener for subjective details when in fact the person who floated the listing might not have given the supposed "fault" a second thought.So is it that a song needs to be a top ten hit to get a Taxi forward? Most of the songs that get cut in Nashville are not themselves top 10 material.I'm not saying that it's necessarily so (that Taxi is too strict) but I think it's worthy of debate. I realize that Taxi treads a fine line. Let too much crap through and their credibility within the industry is shot, but be too strict and we possibly have a song blocked that might have actually gone somewhere. And of course, if we're not happy, we don't renew either. With that in mind, all I'm asking is whether or not screeners should forward more songs than they do? I'd like to hear what everyone thinks.Cam

[squids]

Jun 15, 2009, 3:46pm, jjktunes wrote:When I say this I am including myself too. I have heard country songs on here that could be on a major, but I have not heard a number one yet. I will say this, there are a few songs I have heard that if the right artist and producer got their hands on them they could chart. When we learn what touches, inspires and grabs the masses and we learn how to do that in a 3 min song we have as good of a chance as anybody. I also want to thank Mojo for reminding us what its all about in the first place. It's art at it's best, its a blessing and a gift to be able to tell a story in song that makes somebody feel something, and thats awesome. I'll shut up now. Here, here. Nicely said.And I'd like to add my thoughts......I really love and am fiercely loyal to the country writers here, mostly after watchin chits struggle through on her own. There're strength in numbers and all y'all have shown how determined and dedicated you areWould ya'll consider pooling your resources (financial and time wise) in order to form sort of an 'interested party' that has members from all over, then hire a songplugger or whoever to walk the streets when you can't? Maybe you can form a committee to oversee what's the best songs to shop that week or the month or whateva. Of course, there'll always be contracts with each other, etcI've told chits over and over again, the odds of getting a country hit are astrominally low and that isn't helped by the massive highway that is Nashville......like bein born in the projects and found on the baketball court. Anyway, jes a thought. As fo the rest, Taxi has some connections and they really do film/tv well. He's responsive as a businessman (not all of them are) and is searching fo ways to help all y'all out. I oughta know, I hear about 'em (except with me he gets ta grump......he's a busy guy and extra service take somet time to happen.

[jonathanm]

Jun 15, 2009, 9:09pm, cameron wrote:...I can't honestly say I've heard a #1 song out of any of us yet, but I've definitely heard a lot that are good enough to be album cuts.I here ya, Cam. But I've come to believe that only the folks in the inner circle get to have the songs that are just album cuts. If A&R folks and artists are going to come to a place like TAXI for songs, they're not looking for album filler; they have people that can do that and do it quite well. Basically their thinking is, well it's a long shot, but maybe some unknown has a totally killer song out there, so let's see if TAXI can snare something for us. If TAXI were to deliver stuff that was just good enough to fill out the album, the industry folks would say "no thanks, we have plenty of that."

[cameron]

Jun 15, 2009, 9:47pm, jmeraz wrote:Jun 15, 2009, 9:09pm, cameron wrote:...I can't honestly say I've heard a #1 song out of any of us yet, but I've definitely heard a lot that are good enough to be album cuts.I here ya, Cam. But I've come to believe that only the folks in the inner circle get to have the songs that are just album cuts. If A&R folks and artists are going to come to a place like TAXI for songs, they're not looking for album filler; they have people that can do that and do it quite well. Basically their thinking is, well it's a long shot, but maybe some unknown has a totally killer song out there, so let's see if TAXI can snare something for us. If TAXI were to deliver stuff that was just good enough to fill out the album, the industry folks would say "no thanks, we have plenty of that."A very valid point Jonathan. I'd like to hear what Claire says about that, since she's been there on the Row for a number if years.

[jay10music]

Cam,With all due respect, I would hope that the seminar in Nashville had answered this question. And didn't I read somewhere in a previous post on another thread (before we went to Nashville) that you recognized that your songs weren't quite there (your words), and you knew they needed some tweaking in the lyrics?As for George Strait having a bunch of 2nd rate songs on his album... don't you think he picked them, and is maybe it's not a great strategy for success to shoot for, "I'm as good as his bad stuff."Remember, we learned in Nashville from ALL the panelists that good isn't good enough. It's not TAXI. It's that they've got no shortage of GOOD. They want and need great. I'm guessing George Strait thought the songs you don't like WERE great Cam, seriously.... why keep beating this dead horse and trying to bend the situation to your will? You know you're close. I know you're close. Your friends on this forum know your close. And the panelists who heard your music know you're close.Wouldn't it be a much more productive use of your time to go the extra distance and get GREAT? Why waste your time trying to change what is? Just accept that it IS, and that's what you've got to work with. You are capable of doing it, but the negative approach of what appears to be blaming everybody else feels really negative. Negativity rarely engenders success. Claire's been boots on the ground and doing all the right stuff for 8 years, and she realizes it takes time. How long have you been a member? How many songs do you write a year? How often do you co-write? How many days a week are you on the Row dropping off a song or networking?Claire is doing everything RIGHT, and she hasn't had a cut yet?Let's assume that you're as good as Claire. Wouldn't it make sense that if she's been there working it for 8 years, and you're equal writers, but you're NOT there, that you could use her experience as some sort of yard stick?Would SOMEBODY else who was at the seminar jump in here and back me up on all this? I really can't believe that you're bringing this up AGAIN Cam. Please read the posts below. I copied them from the other Nashville thread. One is from Chits after she was at the same seminar you and I were at. The other is from a new forum member named Arthur. They really say it all.Also, I think you saw how close I am with the guys on the Nashville panel -- they are my friends. And my friends look at this forum. One of the questions I think I forgot to put on my list for Nashville was, "If you've got two equally great songs in front of you, and one is from a high maintenance writer, and the other from a guy who never rocks the boat, which one would you work with?"We all know the answer. Maybe I DID ask that question...I'm asking you once again to keep this well worn debate off my forum. I'm cool if you want to be the guy to start the revolution that will lower the bar in Nashville. You won't be the first un-cut and frustrated songwriter to do so. Just please don't start it here where it publicly drags you and all your fellow TAXI members down to a level that I don't want my friends in Nashville to see.If you've got issues, why don't you write letters and take your case DIRECTLY to all the artists, producers, A&R people and publishers in Nashville who make the rules? Why do it here? Here's Arthur's post, followed by Chits.**************Let me play devil's advocate:1) If you have a song for Nashville you think is a hit, play it for others, especially friends and musicians that know a hit when they hear it and who will give you a truthful unbiased review. You start hearing that it has "hit" potential, you're on your way. The doors WILL open. The problem is, writing a hit song is usually done by the pros. They have the talent.Can anyone show me something they think is a "hit" from the writers in here?2) Your timing window is very short. I know really GOOD writers....make that GREAT writers who's songs become dated and faded very very fast. You have to have the next big thing ready to go. Really good songs I hear at the time seem very dated even months later, very dated one year later and horribly dated two years later. And if you don't get that song cut, it'll end up in the " good but no cigar" bin. Those songs will be never moved. Look at successful writers and their ratio of songs written to songs cut is probably 100-1. The really good ones, it's probably less. What do you think? 3) Let's say I'm a successful country artist. I've gotten there because of my talent, my production team, and hard work for the previous ten years. In that time frame I know the who's who in Nashville. I will not use outside writers unless they have a "hit" and that almost never happens. If I want filler for my record, I know plenty of writers from my circle that I can choose from. Why should I use an unknown writer? I won't. Unless it's really a hit.4) Good thing about TAXI is that it gives an opportunity for unknown writers to try for the brass ring. Where else are these writers going to get feedback? Especially if they're far removed from the industry? It brings the industry right into your home. Pretty cool, if you have semi-marketable songs or a diamond in the rough. *****************From Chits...Hi, folks....I just got back from the panel meeting in Nashville. I plan to renew my membership come July 3rd. This Nashville panel meeting was a TRUE eye opener, and a great educational experience for me. I'm not really a complainer when it comes to fowards. I learned a long time ago that it's difficult to get a cut in Nashville, although not impossible if you write a great song that grabs people's attention. But I did learn a few more things that I didn't know by attending this meeting.Later on, I will tell you why I think country songwriters should stay with TAXI, but first I'd like to say what I learned at this meeting. I'm going strictly by memory as I didn't take notes, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 1. I learned there are over 20,000 country songwriters in Nashville. That was a conservative estimate by the panel, I believe. There are probably more, so the competition is very fierce. After the panel meeting, I sat with one person (some of the songwriters went for dinner afterwards) and they said there may be as many 45,000 songwriters in Nashville.2. Michael and the panel played hit songs so that we could hear the difference between the hit songs and ours. And there was a BIG difference. These songs grabbed you immediately, tugged at your emotions, were very well crafted, and used a lot of clever conversational lyrics. THEY STOOD OUT from the pack. One of them was a Rascal Flatts song, the other a Pat Green song....but they were definitely A plus songs. So a B plus song just isn't good enough. Not that our songs aren't really good, they are....we just might have to go a little further. 3. I learned that women listeners (according to Ralph Murphy) are the ones you have to please at 7 AM in the morning, and you have to grab their attention for the first 45 seconds, or you haven't done your job as a songwriter.4. For me personally, I learned that I need to get away from those poetic lyrics I tend to write and lean more toward the conversational. (when writing country) I think Michael put his arse on the line to play my song for the panel. It was my best one, but I knew it wasn't what they were looking for, but I'm still honored it got critiqued...that meant a lot to me. 5. And here's the BIGGEST THING I learned....that TAXI really is trying to help country songwriters. But they can't perform miracles. They (and the screeners) have to give Nashville what it wants. So by us regularly writing and submitting to TAXI's listings, we become more skilled at knowing what Nashville wants too....we're not flying blind. Think about this, if you DIDN'T have TAXI's screeners helping you to become a better writer, what would you have? NOTHING. You'd be pitching to listings without any concept of what Nashville really needs. I also noticed that the panel said the VERY SAME things about my song, "Silence Is the Best Thing I've Ever Heard" as the screeners did. So when people get upset at the screeners, don't see them as gatekeepers. See them as people who are trying to help YOU, but also as people who ultimately have to deliver the goods that Nashville is requesting of them. They can't send just a b-plus song....it's gotta be beyond the best, and it has to be exactly what the artist is looking for. The reason I think country songwriters should join TAXI is that like me, most of you don't have a direct pulse on Nashville. It would be ideal if we could all live there, but of course, we don't. When Michael put together this panel, that gave the country songwriters even more of a feel for what's going on. Now we know why it's so hard to get a foward or a cut, but as a TAXI member, I feel I can at least keep up with trends in Nashville, get a feel for what a country artist wants and keep improving my craft in the process.I'd like to thank Michael for allowing this panel meeting to happen....I think it went extremely well, and I really enjoyed it. Michael let us in on the world of country songwriting, and in the process, it's helped us all greatly. And finally, even though I don't name y'all, I really loved meeting all my fellow TAXI members.....I had the best time! BTW, I'm very tired from traveling, so I'll e-mail and PM folks later. *****************Thanks Arthur and Chits. you have no idea how much I appreciate that you GET it. Respectfully to all,Michael

[sgs4u]

Michael, I didn't read anything in Cam's post that was negative towards your Nashville seminar or Taxi. He is a very determined son of a B. And like many Taxi members, he is looking for any piece of information or new path to achieving his goals. Taxi accepts money from a few thousand people, many of whom hope that they can get a cut in Nashville. Taxi offers a glimmer of hope that it might be possible. The truth is a lot less than a glimmer. And it's only a glimmer if a song is a perfect sounding HIT. Cam is hoping that maybe an album cut might squeak thru. I can't imagine why a record producer or artist would choose to record anything by an unknown writer, unless it was better than EVERYTHING else the team already has. I have studied country music from my little studio in Canada enough to realize that things are quite different now, from how they were 10-20 years ago. I would be extremely surprised if Nashville ever allowed a song from an "outside the circle," to become a hit, ever again. It is my opinion that none of us stand a chance in hell of ever getting a cut on a big country record anymore. And if anyone of us actually writes and records a potential hit song, it would make it's way to Nashville with or without Taxi. But not without an excellent, expensive full-blown Nashville demo. Cam is paying for or has paid for a Taxi membership as do a lot of people on here who are primarily interested in country music songwriting. He isn't being disrespectful, nor is he being negative. From what I have seen of Cam, he is determined enough to make it in Nashville with or without Taxi. When you say this:Quote:You are capable of doing it, but the negative approach of what appears to be blaming everybody else feels really negative. Negativity rarely engenders success. Claire's been boots on the ground and doing all the right stuff for 8 years, and she realizes it takes time. How long have you been a member? How many songs do you write a year? How often do you co-write? How many days a week are you on the Row dropping off a song or networking? Why attack your own member in print? It is you who is being negative and frankly, I'm tired of you coming on the forum and browbeating, threatening and demeaning people into submission. You could find somebody qualified to moderate this forum without beating people up. We once had a very active and incredibly informative group here for a long time, but things have changed. You are an awesome man with a wonderful vision and I really care about you and this great thing you've built. As much as I have been a dickhead to a few people, I also realize how much energy and love I put into this forum. I love this forum. And while I've loved being a Taxi member and 2 wonderful Road Rallys, I also love the people who give their hearts on this forum. The truth is you need us talking about how great Taxi is. We are your best advertisers. The truth is that you've run a very successful company in an environment that is changing incredibly fast. But it hasn't been successful because of chart topping hit songs, in any genre. And another truth for me is that every once in while, I wish I noticed you showing your members gratitude, for spending their hard earned cash on your company's services. You demean your own paying customers when you don't like what they write on this forum. Just tell people thank you, instead of making them feel like they are a bothersome irritant. When a member says something you don't like, why come on here and browbeat them into shutting up? You seem to have an incredibly negative attitude towards musicians/artists/writers whom you simply don't agree with. They aren't stupid, and they aren't negative. They are chasing their dreams and your company is encouraging them to. Why be offended when they need to vent frustration? Respect is very much a two way street. Personally, I learned a lot more from the forum, than Taxi screeners. People like Cam, Chits, Perry and OntarioLightening have taught me tons thru their experiences, and I'm thankful that I've been able to sit back watch for a while. The forum is not the same as Taxi. You see it as an extension of the company, and of course we're all very thankful that you fund it. The forum is a separate animal and is full of people who generally are quite gifted self-starters. Without the forum, Taxi might not be nearly as rewarding or educational an experience for a lot of members. You are welcome to delete my membership from Taxi and this forum, if you feel so inclined. My experience with Taxi, has been life-changing. I still tell people that I learned more about music writing and production in 2 years with Taxi, than my entire music career. But I've also endured miserable disappointments along the way. Such is life. I am totally happy that I joined Taxi. In fact I'm totally happy that I wrote this message. Steve Soucy

[jdhogg]

re I'm asking you once again to keep this well worn debate off my forum.ML. It is just opinion. All debate is good you could argue. I can see your frustration. I see no logic for mass taxi exodus. The critiques tell you how to raise your bar and that is the real reason to join taxi if you are a "songwriter" imho. The way I see it - Taxi is forcing me to raise my songwriting bar and my songwriting bar is edging up. I will see how high that bar gets before it refuses to budge. Whatever happens I enjoyed the trip. Some people do crosswords or fishing or whatever. I like writing music.RE COUNTRY SONGSIMHO I have not heard a potential #1 on this forum yet (I include myself ) It is simple. As outsiders we wont get single or album cuts through nashville contacts or friends or favours owed because we dont have them. We are not cowriting with the stars. We are not stars getting away with writing average stuff sometimes. Those are not options.As ML has pointed out the best thing is go to nashville. If you CANT then join taxi!!!So our tracks have to be outstanding with no weaknesses.Our songs have to sound as good as the top 50% of what we hear on the radio. Not AS good as what we hear on the radio or as good as album fillers.I have no doubt that if one of us writes a track that is good enough it will make it.Are people actually saying if someone here wrote a classic song it would get no further.There is and always will be massive demand for "classic" songs.That is what we have to come up with and is the unavoidable penalty we pay for not relocating.Does that make it harder? Yes!!!It is harder because we have to write better than average songs!!We forget NOBODY wants a number 1 more than ML!!!!!I wouldn't mind betting if ML heard a "Classic" of the highest order he would be on the phone trying to place it himself.The rules are written. Take it on the chin and aspire to write GREAT songs. There is plenty of talent on this forum.Nothing great comes easy or everyone would do it.Good luck everyone.

[Casey H]

I am surprised that the subjects of (1) taxi forwarding more country songs or (2) room for album cuts as opposed to hits even came up again-- at least among the same group of people here. My take was the Nashville seminar put that all to rest. (If you are reading this and don't know, I was there).Certainly, the issue about album tracks from outsiders was clearly put to bed by the panel. Most experienced writers know that, with established writers working on hits for the big artists, the ones THEY write that aren't quite good enough become the album tracks. With tons of good but not great songs available from the inner circle, why would outside material have a chance that way? No one should ever even think that their B+ songs will get cut unless they have some very, very special and unusual inside connection.Taxi is not going to forward what they don't think is undeniably great. Period. There is no point. Now, are there times where we will disagree as to what is in that "great" category? Yes. I don't agree with all returns I see posted here. But, the bottom line is there will always be a gatekeeper who decides if your song is high bar enough. Get used to it. Deal with it. Write more. Write better. Cam, my friend... I know you meant nothing bad with your post about forwarding album track material. Sometimes we don't realize the impact of what we say (or type). But ML put tons of time, energy, and dollars into this Nashville seminar, to address this very thing. So when you raise that subject again, it has to be exasperating for him. I am no different than everyone else, even though I don't write country. I throw tantrums when my film/TV submissions get returned and I disagree. But there are two places that energy is best served: (1) Make better music and (2) Market through every possible channel I can, in addition to taxi.Everyone (myself included):What will you do today to become a better writer/composer?What will you do today to become more proactive in marketing your work?Best, Casey

[billg]

I'm glad I'm not a country songwriter or trying to be one.

[bucyboy]

The way I look at it, I love to write. I've come close a couple of times of having some songs cut by some major artists, and I know the frustration. It hasn't made me want to quit. I may never get a cut, but all I can do is keep on trying. I know if I quit I'll never get a cut. Writing is something I enjoy and I'm going to keep doing it regardless. Everybody has their passions that they devote a lot of time to, and they do it because they love it. I appreciate the seminar in Nashville, thanks ML, and I'm going to do my best to apply it to what I write. I know what I've written so far isn't bad, and I look forward to writing the next one even better. Buc