The Neverending Mix

[koopaloop]

Hi everyoneIm a long time reader and first time poster, as I have just joined Taxi recently.And one question came to mind, now that Im trying to write music specifically for listings.Is the mix and remix.WHEN DOES IT END???Every time I think Im done with a song, I listen to it the next day with fresh ears. and every time a coconut, something sounds like it needs to be adjusted.Every single time.So my question to you guys, is when do you finally call it quits on a mix, and become satisfied.Also, does anyone know of a good orchestra sampler/library/VST instrument, for cheap.I dont have alot of money.Im using Synful Orchestra for now, but the trial runs out soon.Also......to Andre, what system/programs/plugins are you running.Id be interested to know.Thanks

[ernstinen]

Hi Koopaloop!Well, koops, I've been mixing as well as composing and songwriting, so take what I say with a grain of salt!To answer your question, you can't get a good mix with one set of speakers.First of all, buy a pair of nice monitor speakers that "speak the truth." They may not sound great on playback of your favorite CDs, but listen for a long time and find a pair that are "honest."Then, maybe buy another pair of cheaper/smaller ones that do the same.The old "A/B" comparison is invaluable.THEN, you have your headphones. Buy some good ones.After that, it's the "car stereo." And the "boombox." Make sure all of these are references you "know" by listening to them alot and understand.When you know your own studio monitors, you might add a subwoofer to hear the LOW LOW's! That never was a problem in the "OLD DAYS" when I began engineering, but now it adds to your frequency response issues for rap etc.Go to your music store and listen to monitors. Especially listen in the mid-range areas of voice and the highs of cymbals. If those sound natural, you might be close!Keep those ears open ------Ern

[og]

Quote:Hi Koopaloop!Well, koops, I've been mixing as well as composing and songwriting, so take what I say with a grain of salt!Ern ...and a glass of wine. Digest, and file in your brain as "important stuff I learned today". As for the mix, I don't have any songs that I listen to and don't think, "ya know, if I panned this a little more to the left, it would..." There has to be a point where you decide it's as good as you can get it, and you can tweak 'til hell freezes over and never think it's perfect. At least for me.

[ernstinen]

Quote:...and a glass of wine. Digest, and file in your brain as "important stuff I learned today". As for the mix, I don't have any songs that I listen to and don't think, "ya know, if I panned this a little more to the left, it would..." There has to be a point where you decide it's as good as you can get it, and you can tweak 'til hell freezes over and never think it's perfect. At least for me. Ha! Ain't it the truth!I remember in the "olden days" (Sonny ), we'd do 6-handed mixes on faders, pans, effects sends etc. and practice them 'til we got it right.Then the next day, we'd listen to it and say "we missed that move, let's do it again." --- Ya gotta know when to call it "close enough for rock and roll." Nevertheless, a mix SHOULD sound good on every playback system you have, as far as balance and eq. Just let the small stuff go!Ern

[andreh]

Quote:Also......to Andre, what system/programs/plugins are you running.Id be interested to know.ThanksHi koop-I'm running a Pro Tools HD3 system on a dual 2.0gHz G5 Mac, and Gigastudio on a PC. I have a good assortment of plug-ins, but I mostly use the Sony, McDSP, and GML EQ's, and for compression I go to my SSL Duende, Waves Rcomp, and Digi's own Comp3.My front end consists of a Neumann TLM103 into an FMR RNP (just dumped my Avalon 737; looking for something a little "bigger" sounding) into a Digi 192.It's a great setup, but I'll be quick to point out that it's not required to make great sounding music. I'm glad I have all that horsepower under the hood - especially for some of the complex electronic music I produce - but if it all got stolen or burned up in a fire I doubt if I'd replace it with a similar system. These days, even entry-level gear can generate great, professional, BROADCAST QUALITY results if you work it the right way.Andre

[koopaloop]

Thanks for the advice guys,And Andre,thanks for reassuring me that great music can be made with entry level computers.Cuz my system aint that pretty.Its an old 1.2GhzWith 512mb RAM (just bought/upgraded to 2Ghz today, have yet to install it though)And I run FLStudio 7 (sweetest program ever, i think, at least....hehe)Im running everything through my PODXT guitar pedal. Which I should probably replace with an M-Box type gadget of sorts...cuz running DTXplorer drums through a guitar pedal just doesnt do the job.Anyone got some advice on good USB/Preamp interface thingys.preferbally 24bit/96khz, that are under $150???Also......is there any chance of making it, strictly from really short instrumentals.Like :30-:50secs?Or should I be writing longer songs.Cuz lately I have been writing short instrumentals, that I vizualize a scene in TV/Movie and I thourougly enjoy it.Moreso than writing a longer song, or the next Hit. ;-)So is it possible??And thanks everyone, I really love this forum....Its a great wealth of information from really talented musicians.

[horacejesse]

Quote:I remember in the "olden days" (Sonny ), we'd do 6-handed mixes on faders, pans, effects sends etc. and practice them 'til we got it right.Then the next day, we'd listen to it and say "we missed that move, let's do it again." That's what I do right now with two hands that are moving pretty fast sometimes. There are times I even use individual fingers on different faders. But you know exactly what I am talking about.

[arkjack]

A mix is like soup.. you have to keep tasting it until you think its delicious... the problem is the head chef might think it tastes like garbage..... But as an analogy, soup just about covers it... think about how many ways you can modify the recipe... and it eventually boils down to practice... finding the things that work. In my own case, I just got finished reading my latest batch of returns from TAXI submissions which can only mean one thing.... I have to go back to the kitchen and re-cook my soup.... when the maitre d' (TAXI) feels it is worthy of serving in the dining room (a forward) then I can feel comfortale in saying that soup is done... if the guest tastes it , likes it, and eats it.... then its good soup.... my original batch of soup tasted like s**t...... at least now the chefs say it just tastes a little funny..... still a little undercooked or missing an ingredient.... I use a couple of Rolad BR units chained together.... I haven't been able to good results on a soft console... I have garageband, sonar, live, but i only use them occaisionally to experiment with edits of wav files I created on the Roland....By the way... post a link to your kitchen and let us have a taste... ArkJack

[koopaloop]

Great analogy Arckjack........I really like it. I think the problem I have with my soup is the ingredients just arent good enough. (meaning my playing) So no matter how you mix the ingredients, if they were stale from the beginning its gonna wreck the soup. ;-)See.....The pot is fine, (my DAW/Software)The spoon is fine (my mixer)THe recipe is fine, i think or hope(the song writing)But the ingredients are lacking......I play guitar, bass, keys, and drums.....in most my songs.So Im a jack of all trades, but master of none.I also find it hard sometimes, to be inspired without other people....in the mix.Its much easier to write a great collaboration song, with someone to feed off of.....or better yet a band etc. You know?You say you cant seem to get a good sound from a soft console?Why is that? Do you know? Whats your setup? Sounds sweet with all those rolands in a chain. And.....I'll provide a link as soon as I upload some stuff to broadjam. PS Also....does anyone have problems with finishing songs?Like starting them and never coming round to ending them. Its frustrating.

[koopaloop]

Heres a link to my kitchen http://www.broadjam.com/artists/artisti ... tID=42235I mix in my headphones, cuz I live in an apartment. And now after uploading these and listening to them on my laptop speakers......they're either way too loud or bassy, cuz I have been compensating for my shitty headphones. RRRGH!! Oh well......any critisism is welcome.