The Neverending Mix

[koopaloop]

Hi everyoneIm a long time reader and first time poster, as I have just joined Taxi recently.And one question came to mind, now that Im trying to write music specifically for listings.Is the mix and remix.WHEN DOES IT END???Every time I think Im done with a song, I listen to it the next day with fresh ears. and every time a coconut, something sounds like it needs to be adjusted.Every single time.So my question to you guys, is when do you finally call it quits on a mix, and become satisfied.Also, does anyone know of a good orchestra sampler/library/VST instrument, for cheap.I dont have alot of money.Im using Synful Orchestra for now, but the trial runs out soon.Also......to Andre, what system/programs/plugins are you running.Id be interested to know.Thanks

[ernstinen]

Hi Koopaloop!Well, koops, I've been mixing as well as composing and songwriting, so take what I say with a grain of salt!To answer your question, you can't get a good mix with one set of speakers.First of all, buy a pair of nice monitor speakers that "speak the truth." They may not sound great on playback of your favorite CDs, but listen for a long time and find a pair that are "honest."Then, maybe buy another pair of cheaper/smaller ones that do the same.The old "A/B" comparison is invaluable.THEN, you have your headphones. Buy some good ones.After that, it's the "car stereo." And the "boombox." Make sure all of these are references you "know" by listening to them alot and understand.When you know your own studio monitors, you might add a subwoofer to hear the LOW LOW's! That never was a problem in the "OLD DAYS" when I began engineering, but now it adds to your frequency response issues for rap etc.Go to your music store and listen to monitors. Especially listen in the mid-range areas of voice and the highs of cymbals. If those sound natural, you might be close!Keep those ears open ------Ern

[og]

Quote:Hi Koopaloop!Well, koops, I've been mixing as well as composing and songwriting, so take what I say with a grain of salt!Ern ...and a glass of wine. Digest, and file in your brain as "important stuff I learned today". As for the mix, I don't have any songs that I listen to and don't think, "ya know, if I panned this a little more to the left, it would..." There has to be a point where you decide it's as good as you can get it, and you can tweak 'til hell freezes over and never think it's perfect. At least for me.

[ernstinen]

Quote:...and a glass of wine. Digest, and file in your brain as "important stuff I learned today". As for the mix, I don't have any songs that I listen to and don't think, "ya know, if I panned this a little more to the left, it would..." There has to be a point where you decide it's as good as you can get it, and you can tweak 'til hell freezes over and never think it's perfect. At least for me. Ha! Ain't it the truth!I remember in the "olden days" (Sonny ), we'd do 6-handed mixes on faders, pans, effects sends etc. and practice them 'til we got it right.Then the next day, we'd listen to it and say "we missed that move, let's do it again." --- Ya gotta know when to call it "close enough for rock and roll." Nevertheless, a mix SHOULD sound good on every playback system you have, as far as balance and eq. Just let the small stuff go!Ern

[arkjack]

A mix is like soup.. you have to keep tasting it until you think its delicious... the problem is the head chef might think it tastes like garbage..... But as an analogy, soup just about covers it... think about how many ways you can modify the recipe... and it eventually boils down to practice... finding the things that work. In my own case, I just got finished reading my latest batch of returns from TAXI submissions which can only mean one thing.... I have to go back to the kitchen and re-cook my soup.... when the maitre d' (TAXI) feels it is worthy of serving in the dining room (a forward) then I can feel comfortale in saying that soup is done... if the guest tastes it , likes it, and eats it.... then its good soup.... my original batch of soup tasted like s**t...... at least now the chefs say it just tastes a little funny..... still a little undercooked or missing an ingredient.... I use a couple of Rolad BR units chained together.... I haven't been able to good results on a soft console... I have garageband, sonar, live, but i only use them occaisionally to experiment with edits of wav files I created on the Roland....By the way... post a link to your kitchen and let us have a taste... ArkJack

[koopaloop]

Great analogy Arckjack........I really like it. I think the problem I have with my soup is the ingredients just arent good enough. (meaning my playing) So no matter how you mix the ingredients, if they were stale from the beginning its gonna wreck the soup. ;-)See.....The pot is fine, (my DAW/Software)The spoon is fine (my mixer)THe recipe is fine, i think or hope(the song writing)But the ingredients are lacking......I play guitar, bass, keys, and drums.....in most my songs.So Im a jack of all trades, but master of none.I also find it hard sometimes, to be inspired without other people....in the mix.Its much easier to write a great collaboration song, with someone to feed off of.....or better yet a band etc. You know?You say you cant seem to get a good sound from a soft console?Why is that? Do you know? Whats your setup? Sounds sweet with all those rolands in a chain. And.....I'll provide a link as soon as I upload some stuff to broadjam. PS Also....does anyone have problems with finishing songs?Like starting them and never coming round to ending them. Its frustrating.

[koopaloop]

Heres a link to my kitchen http://www.broadjam.com/artists/artisti ... tID=42235I mix in my headphones, cuz I live in an apartment. And now after uploading these and listening to them on my laptop speakers......they're either way too loud or bassy, cuz I have been compensating for my shitty headphones. RRRGH!! Oh well......any critisism is welcome.

[ernstinen]

Hey Koolpaloop!I just took a break from composing, and listened to your tunes.You're a real talented guy and arranger! I thought your guitar stuff was especially good, "The Essence" and "Speedboating In Spain" etc. Very nice guitar playing and textures, great drum programming and bass playing (I assume it's a real bass and programmed drums)."Chances We Take" and "Happy Spot" are pretty bright in the upper midrange. And the string/synth stuff were too short for me to really comment. Orchestral samples are so advanced these days that the competition is tough on stuff like that.All in all, I think you're doing a fine job. Mixing on headphones! Wow, that takes some ears.Ern

[koopaloop]

Hey Ern,Thanks for taking the time to listen.And as long as you thought the guitar stuff was good, Im happy, because thats mainly what I make.........As for the stuff being too bright.I agree. It sounded really good in my headphones, so I left it.But when I played it in my car......ugh!It was so bright it was hurting my ears. And I had to adjust my cars EQ. The bass and drums are real.Well on "In Essence", "Chances We Take" its me playing.THough......If by real you mean acoustic.....then no.I am playing on electronic drums, which may give them that "programmed" feel. I dunno.... But on the Spain one, And Lettered Hands its BetaMonkey loops.If you havent tried Beta Monkey, I highly recommend them! www.betamonkeymusic.comIve never been dissapointed with any of the CD's. I just about have them all now. Because theyre that good.Its wierd.....buy one....and you cant stop! hehe. Musicians crack!! TTYL

[prez]

Quote:Hi everyoneIm a long time reader and first time poster, as I have just joined Taxi recently.And one question came to mind, now that Im trying to write music specifically for listings.Is the mix and remix.WHEN DOES IT END???The mix ends when it's as close as you're going to get it or is dead on which how you want it. If you keep redoing a song, it will eventually just lose it's specialness from trying to make it too perfect.Imperfections are sometimes a good thing and can give a song character. By that, I mean minor things. A background noise that fits right in with the music, a sigh, a word in the background, etc. These are surprise elements that you hear but seem to be done on purpose because they fit in the song.Pitch problems, too much reverb, harsh sounds that make it hard on the ears. etc; all of these need to be fixed.Quote:Every time I think Im done with a song, I listen to it the next day with fresh ears. and every time a coconut, something sounds like it needs to be adjusted.Every single time.See my above comment.Quote:Also, does anyone know of a good orchestra sampler/library/VST instrument, for cheap.I dont have alot of money.Don't need a lot of money. Just need to stay with a certain platform, know your equipment, and practice your craft by making songs and getting feedback like you are doing now. If you have to save up to get what you need then have patience young jedi and save up. You'll be better for it in the long run. Oh..and educate yourself. If you don't have a subscription to a music magazine like Electronic Musician or Keyboard, get one. And invest in music books. God bless.