This one took the wind out of my sails...

[aubreyz]

Quote:Quote:Am I wrong to assume that style and production are more important than the lyrical content? Is it possible that a song that otherwise met the criteria for a library listing could be rejected because a few lines in the lyrics were "not strong enough" similar to a high-bar Nashville listing? Larry, you're correct, a screener should normally not reject a song for a library listing because of a few less than stellar lines, unless 1) the library asked to be picky lyric wise (which would usually be mentioned in the listing) or 2) those lines limit the song/s potential for library applictions (specific names, profanity etc).On the other hand you can never go wrong improving a song... Matto seems to always have the best answers He posted while I was typing mine last night, or I probably would have set this one out I didn't explain it in my post, but I only mentioned those lyrics because on my first listen they jumped out at me as awkward in an otherwise very well written song. VERY usable as is for a library. IMHO tweaking a few things could make a very good song even better, and could increase the chances for potential placements.btw-- most of those of us who participate on the board don't just offer suggestions trying to be know it alls. We, and me especially, may even be wrong sometimes We also listen to others comments. I post quite a bit asking for input. I don't always agree with the feedback, but it always makes me think and look at things from different angles. It's all about improving our craft.It will be interesting to hear the results of the custom. Either way, be encouraged. This is good stuff. I listened again from reference monitors, and the production quality is good, but you get that 60's sound very well too. The drum sound is close to perfect for this era/genre IMHO. I couldn't really hear the bass runs last night, and with it much of the "country Buffet" I was hearing is gone. And the background vocals are KILLER, and well placed in the mix.Aub

[ljweber70]

Aub, thanks for the follow up and the kudos... I appreciate any feedback even if I don't agree I think Chuck summed it up in his post that a thread like this (a return) asks for nits. Whereas if I would have been fortunate enough to be posting a forward for the same song, all replies would have probably been glowing. Anyway, thanks again - I'm looking forward to the critique response and I plan on posting the results on this thread when I get it.Larry

[horacejesse]

Larry,To me, the vocal is good. The background vocals are especially awesome. Since I can't even hear any pitchiness in the lead vocal, I will leave that alone and make another comment on something that I do hear, since we are grasping at straws here, everyone seeming to agree that any problems are probably small ones.One line of the lyric stuck out and seemed like it might be age inappropriate for the people most into surf music and those who wrote it back in the day. Pina coladas. I don't think any of those groups ever wrote about hard liquor, or even mentioned it. The song with that line in it from youngsters amost surely would have been censored from the airwaves back then. Now is different, but not at Taxi when they are looking for something completely appropriate to a particular era. Hard liquor suddenly snapped me from a teenage wolrd into the adult world. Well, we are grasping at straws, are we not?

[ljweber70]

Well, that could be. Maybe I need to change it to "virgin pina coladas" As I said earlier, I am going to share what the custom critique reveals on this thread.Thanks for the input and boosting my confidence that this track is worthy of pursuing.Larry

[horacejesse]

Hey Larry,I myself have not had anything custome critiqued (unless you count the live critiques during the Taxiland trip) but I plan on doing that pretty soon. When you go for it be sure and take the advice of our wise forum seniors and ask the screener to address specific details of the song you may be concerned with. According to them, you get a much better critique if you point out what you want them to address along with their usual method.I don't know if Pina collada stopped your song, but it sat me upright in my chair when I heard it. The listing says no lyrical restrictions and does not mention kids. But we all know that surf music is identified pretty strongly with youth and beautiful bodies and even health. The text did mention 60's and 70's surf music. This pina collada thing is for yuppies not teenaged surfers.That may not be the reason. It may be what Matto described. I only listened on my dinky computer speakers. Matt has a great ear, so if he said he heard it, it is hard to doubt. Still, I would evict pina colladas. I just feel it does not belong in your song. It is incredibly easy to change too,which as we all know, is not always the case with these problems.Virgin? Yeah, use that ten or twelve times.

[horacejesse]

Larry and folks,I am afraid of seeming like I want to beat this horse to death. The reason I am spending a lot of time on it is because it became an important test case for me. It is musically so close to the style that was asked for that it has been quite a challenge to pinpoint the reasons for its return, for me an important challenge to resolve and a good learning experience.Now that I see it clearer, it seems to have taken all the contributors to ferret out the reasons.After listening again, I believe Aub's comments on the lyrics were right "on the money." I believe that phrase and "top of the line," both hurt the song a bit, though not as much as pina collada. The rest of the lyrics are absolutely stellar in terms of this listing. Toes in the sand, getting free at the beach, and especially castaway, are just marvelous mood setters.I also have to agree that the drums are dead on correct from what I know of vocal surf music. Beach Boys, etc., were not big into the drums, as you yourself pointed out. They were not even big into guitars. They were big into vocals and vocal harmonies and their lyrics.I was afraid when I went back and listened that the whole lyric might sound too yuppie. But that was not the case at all. As far as I am concerned, except for those three instances already mentioned, they are just dead on of the era.In case you have not understood--this song is a winner. The fixes are very small and easy in my opinion. You got a lot of attention here because the song was so good and so close to the listing requirements.It was important for me to work on the critique of your song until I felt what the screeners found wrong was found by us. Though it was tough for us, to the screener it was probably done second nature. The screeners are that good and experienced. The screener probably found the problems easy to locate.Great song. Larry.

[ljweber70]

Horacejesse,Thanks again for listening and thanks for the compliments. I need to know what happened on this one, fix it and send it back out there. I think it's a winner, too! Much appreciation as always!Larry

[ljweber70]

My thought this morning as I wait for the custom critique:Here's what bothers me about the lyric issue: the listing says: "no lyrical restrictions (but no profanity)"Based on that criteria, I would have to speculate that "top of the line" and even "pina coladas" wouldn't be a problem.....(I would add to horace and aub's argument that if "lingo" were an issue, then my use of "awesome" in the first verse wouldn't make it as 1960-ish - either)I would hope that if the library wanted "genuine surfer lingo" or "lyrics aimed at teens" then it would have been posted in the listing. Or, it SHOULD have been. To me , no lyrical restrictions mean you have creative freedom as to subject matter (as long as there is no profanity). In fact, I think you could write about things that didn't even exist in the 60's -- like your 1985 Cutlass Supreme. My read was that the song needed to SOUND like what the Beach Boys and Jan and Dean were doing - which, IMO was the big vocal / harmony production. Which, IMO, I did. So....I'm expecting the critique to say that the lead vocal was not strong enough or there is something wrong with the production. Personally, I don't hear the pitchiness or strain that matto spoke of..... but I only have 2 ears -- and he is obviously seasoned at this.We shall see,Larry

[matto]

Larry,no "lyrical restrictions" just means you can write about any theme you like...it still has to be stylistically appropriate.For example if there was a country listing with no lyrical restrictions, it would mean you could submit love songs, story songs, songs about family etc etc...but it wouldn't be a very good idea to submit a song about "pimps and hoes getting down at da club", for example... ...even if it was musically dead on country.That being said, I don't think your song would've been rejected based on a few less than ideal lines...but at the same time I think it was helpful to have them pointed out, and if it was my song I'd fix them... matto

[ljweber70]

Matto, thanks. This is a great learning experience for me.On the lighter side, this probably wouldn't work: Steel drum rhythms fill the salty airTropical breezes flowing through my hairGot my hoe named Cherry fetching crackers and cold Bud Ice......Hope that made somebody smile Larry