Tips for Recording Fiddle?

[lesmac]

Yes, maybe the ear mic is probably not a good option for a fiddle player.

I think Matt's suggestion is a more straightforward KISS approach.

[Merryband1]

My main problem is my noisy recording area. I've mentioned this before in the chats during TAXI TV. I live in the country, and it's got lots of birds & cicadas. I have to work around that. Fortunately, it hasn't been killer hot this year (odd for August), but when the windows aren't open, letting in the outside noise, the air conditioner clicks on & off. Haven't been able to make a quiet sound room yet, although that's on my list of things to do. I took the day off from recording today & concentrated on "just" playing, because I noticed (from recording) how out of practice I am. Have a gig coming up next month, too (a wedding reception). Probably try for more recording tomorrow. I'm going to work with what I have, and see which combo makes the best sound. May have to mic the fiddle by standing in front of a mic and sending the sound through the keyboard amp, then miking the amp. I still have LOTS to learn about getting the best sound! Thanks for all the tips!

Merry

[Len911]

Merry, chicken hawks will keep the birds at bay, maybe a fake one? cicadas, don't they only show up every 4 or 14 years, maybe there are different ones? I suppose you could turn down the a/c and let it cool things down, then turn it off for awhile.
Or... only record in the winter

[Merryband1]

Yes, the challenges of recording in the country are many.

Merry

[Len911]

Yes, the challenges of recording in the country are many.

Merry

I lived in the country once. A mile from the nearest house, six miles from the nearest town. Six acres off a paved road in the middle of whatever was planted fields. My biggest challenge was people. I don't really know where all my country neighbors lived, but they were always dropping by, in cars, trucks, tractors, utility vehicles, always inviting me to a get together, wanting to buy something, wondering what I was going to do with something, needing me to move my big truck so they could use my driveway to get to their fields with their tractors, always something. I never experienced that living in the suburbs or city. Other than that it was relatively quiet, except for the yearly snow goose migration, the large treeless gap kept squirrels away and birds at bay.

[Kolstad]

My main problem is my noisy recording area. I've mentioned this before in the chats during TAXI TV. I live in the country, and it's got lots of birds & cicadas. I have to work around that. Fortunately, it hasn't been killer hot this year (odd for August), but when the windows aren't open, letting in the outside noise, the air conditioner clicks on & off. Haven't been able to make a quiet sound room yet, although that's on my list of things to do. I took the day off from recording today & concentrated on "just" playing, because I noticed (from recording) how out of practice I am. Have a gig coming up next month, too (a wedding reception). Probably try for more recording tomorrow. I'm going to work with what I have, and see which combo makes the best sound. May have to mic the fiddle by standing in front of a mic and sending the sound through the keyboard amp, then miking the amp. I still have LOTS to learn about getting the best sound! Thanks for all the tips!

Merry

Just some ideas..

With all of those noises, you risk ruining a good performance very fast, so I would suggest recording the fiddle direct with a shure 57 or 58 or similar type dynamic mic, if you have one. Ideally you would use a small condenser or a ribbon (and in a good room, in stereo). But dynamic mics does not pick up as much ambient noise as condenser mics, and the fiddle should cut through well enough from 3-6ft away. Don't record the violin too close, they tend to sound better from a distance, and if you can find a room with wooden floors it may help bring out the character of the instrument.

I'd position the mic above the violin somewhere, where it sounds the nicest (monitor with earbuds). You may have to do some testing, as that will depend on the room you are in. If you record with a dynamic mic, they also reject noise from the sides, so when you have unwanted noise in the environment, try to set up the mic so those noises are sideways to the position where you record, that way you can prevent the mic from picking the noise up. Id try to locate the aircon switch, though, and turn it off just while you are recording if at all possible.

When recording, make the player play something while you monitor the gain stage, if too low turn up the interface channel, if too high turn it down. You should try to get a solid signal around -6 to -10 dbfs in your recording device, as that allows for a good signal to noise ratio (you wont hear as much ambience) and create a solid signal to work with in mixing as well. You may get away with lower, if you know how to mix, but at least -10 in a good position, should give you a good take that doesn't need as much processing. If your keyboard amp has an effects loop (front or back), try just to plug into the fx return, as that way you won't get coloration from the preamp stage, and just get clean gain from the poweramp.

Hope it gives you something to try out. Happy recording.

[mojobone]

I've miked bunches of fiddles live and in the studio and the main rule is to not get too close, cuz you pick up a lot of "chuff" and bow scraping; you need some of that attack, so you move the mic back out, 'til it balances with the note's sustain. Usually, I'll place the mic at shoulder level; the mike diaphragm doesn't have to be looking at the bridge of the instrument, necessarily. Once you've established the critical distance, the Tom Dowd method that Les outlined earlier is a very good one; put your ear where the mic goes to determine the best angle. You're gonna wanna invest in a decent boom stand sooner or later, so bite the bullet. I recommend Atlas stands, cuz they'll last way longer than you; do future generations a solid.

Signal to noise management would tend to favor higher output condensers here, but cheap ones can sound tinny/scratchy on a fiddle; a better option might be a Shure SM57 through a Cloudlifter or one of those awesome little tube preamps by Presonus or ART. Fiddles tend to like a bright, reflective room, but if the walls, ceiling and floors are all hard and smooth you might want some baffles around the player, mic and instruments and/or thick carpet underneath, but since dynamic mics aren't so 'grabby', you can maybe get along without 'em.


Some don'ts? I don't mind a wireless lavalier mic on a live gig, but I'd generally rather have a pickup, cuz a lavalier will need drastic EQ (it's too close to the scraping bow, remember?) and makes for a fine source of feedback. Wireless units are seldom used in the studio due to the possibility of radio interference or dropouts ruining a take, plus they often have built in compression/expansion circuitry that ultimately flattens the instrument's dynamic range. Don't do that.

[Merryband1]

Thanks, Kolstad & Mojo! Some great ideas there, and I'll definitely be looking to upgrade my recording gear as soon as I can. Wish I had access to wooden floors right now.

Meanwhile, I did some remixing today. You can take a listen here:

http://marionfaithlaird.homestead.com/M ... 2836762328

The current track is a lot softer than version 3, but I seem to remember it was pushing into the red zone while I was mixing that one, so I turned the fader down on the master track, and adjusted the other tracks accordingly. I brought up one of the rhythm guitars, and did a little cutting & moving of tracks that weren't quite on the beat, so.... Hoping the latest version is much better. I've already uploaded it to my TAXI site, in case the screener would get to it before I could get reposted. I may try to rerecord the fiddle using some of your tips, guys. I know I could make it sound better than it does currently. If this were for a movie or TV, I'd probably have to. Meanwhile, I worked with its EQ and took out a lot of the treble to take out some of the scratchiness.

Thanks,
Merry

PS I wish I could work with a recording engineer, so i didn't have to wear two or three hats at once. It can be tough, getting the DAW set up, then having to press the record button and then jump in and start playing. Ah, well, if wishes were horses, I'd have a palomino. Also, a recording studio.

[Len911]

Merry, I actually liked the second one the best, it was for sure louder.

Just my 2 cents, but I would set the master fader at 0db and leave it. I would have preferred to put a compressor on the individual tracks, or use the volume automation in places if necessary. Also you could put a limiter on the stereo buss (master fader) if you prefer, but if the stereo buss is too hot, that is an indication that the tracks need working on to get the levels down.

[Merryband1]

Len, somehow I missed your "middle of nowhere" post. Hardly anyone drops in here these days. Aside from the aforementioned birds and animals. Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I might as well live in a treehouse!
Thanks for the tip on setting the master fader. I'll go after that and remaster the take, bring some tracks down a bit and others up. Michael mentioned something Monday about someone's guitar having too much boomy low end, so I rolled off some bass in the EQ. If I can make the mix as loud as 2 or 3 and still have the tracks be properly synced, I'll be a happy camper!
Thanks for the input and suggestions!

Merry