Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

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irthlingz
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Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

Post by irthlingz » Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:53 pm



1) Overall too much variety for this cue? (They emphasize ONE CENTRAL MOTIF.)

2) If we can make it overall unified enough, should we avoid flourishes like the one at around 0:20 that leads from one section into another?

3) Does the piece come off as the right general tone (warm, positive, and motivational)? Or is it too "happy"?

Any other feedback welcome.

Thanks!

===
Michael & Sharon

===

MOTIVATIONAL, ACOUSTIC-Based INSTRUMENTAL CUES are needed by a very successful boutique Music Library that's distributed by Universal for placements in Commercials, Advertisements, and Promotions.

NOTE: We previously ran this request as TAXI Listing #D210629AC, but the Library didn't find what they were looking for. If you submitted to listing #D210629AC, please send different material this time around.

NEW TIPS FROM THE LIBRARY TO HELP YOU NAIL THIS PITCH: "Many composers throw in way too many ideas and are not focused on ONE CENTRAL MOTIF: they try to keep things interesting by adding new harmonic lines and elements (melodies, even improvisations, etc) instead of focusing on the production and textures. What I'm looking for is basically: obvious production music (in form and structure), that sounds like commercial music (production style)." Put simply, keep it SIMPLE! We know that other Libraries like to receive music with complementary A and B sections, but this Library is NOT one of them – stick with ONE CENTRAL MOTIF per submission, please!

This is a catalog you want to be in! Please listen to the following examples the Library gave us to get yourself in the ballpark of what they need:

Instrumental Examples
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dtaz3nlsjcip ... dYnfa?dl=0

Quoting the Company's CEO: "We’re looking for engaging Cues that have acoustic/organic instrumentation. We seek fresh and somewhat sophisticated pieces with a warm, positive, and motivational mood, but without drifting into 'happy go lucky' / 'carefree' or 'heartfelt' terrain. The trick with motivational Cues is that they all have a certain drive – a pace that propels you forward, feels motivating and engaging, it has a certain determination. We're not looking for just 'happy' cues or 'warm and wholesome' – both would be different concepts."

Please send well-composed Instrumental Cues that could make consumers feel inspired! Craft your Cues around one clear, emotionally uplifting motif, and layer instrumentation in and out as they progress to create a sense of forward momentum and dynamics. Acoustic/organic-based instrumentation that's in the same general vein as the references will suit your submissions best – some touches of synths are okay, but definitely keep them to a minimum. Please be sure that your production is polished and any and all virtual instruments you use are high-quality and fresh.

Another Production Tip from the Library: "Make sure there are options for editors (ie: build-ups, accent sections, dynamic section... etc). Avoid any (prominent) leads or anything that's too distracting; rather, use catchy little motifs/phrases that are embedded in the chord progression/arrangement."

All submissions should be about 2 minutes long, give or take. Good edit points and non-faded, buttoned/stinger endings are required. Do NOT copy the references in any way, shape, or form. Use them only as a general guide for tempo, tone, texture, and overall vibe. Broadcast Quality is needed.

NOTE: This company has a strong preference for composers who understand music licensing companies and how typical music library deals are structured. If that's not you, they politely ask that you don't submit to this request. Also, if you're an experienced producer that can deliver the goods in this genre, they're especially interested in hearing what you can do!

This Music Library offers an EXCLUSIVE deal with a cool twist. You’ll keep 50% of all gross income generated by your music, plus you’ll get 100% of the Writer’s share income generated by your PRO. In other words, if the company licenses your music under a blanket deal, you’ll get income. If they license it for a YouTube video, you’ll get income. Not all music libraries pay you for things like that! The Publisher will get 100% of the Publisher’s share.

Because this is an Exclusive deal, the music you submit for this pitch cannot already be signed with other Libraries or Publishers. You must own or control 100% of your Master and Composition rights. Please send as many Instrumental Cues as you’d like, online or per CD. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI. Submissions must be received no later than 11:59 PM (PDT) on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021. TAXI # S211020MO

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Re: Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

Post by gitanosoy » Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:13 pm

Hi Guys,

I don't know if those are the sounds you are going to be using or where you are at in regards to eq , mixing but you are going to use better recording if it is a real piano and drums or get better VST instruments and plugins, you are competing with tracks in the examples given.

You need to start slowly with one or two tracks and slowly build up by adding other instruments without over doing it. Automation is key on tracks like this.

Look at the wave form of the example how it increase...don't forget the edit points.

I have been listening to your tracks for a while now and I am sorry but you need to invest in some sound libraries if you want to go down this sync path .

Just trying to help so you get a forward sooner than later.

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Re: Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

Post by AlanHall » Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:13 pm

Too many chords! Listen to the ref tracks. I haven't done a harmonic analysis of the tunes yet, but I did just finish listening to each of them 2..3 times this evening. for this kind of cue (maybe for any 90s to 2min cue) avoid going to the relative keys and stay away from the secondary dominants. It's simply not done in this kind of music. You've got a "yes we can" vibe going, then a relative minor throws the emotion out the window :o

I am very pleased to see the detail in which the library has gone to solicit exactly the kind of material they want. Almost a recipe card for the cues that will be accepted. Just what I've been looking for in regards to compositional direction. Like they're telling me (or the whole Taxi membership) "listen, you're doing it wrong, do it this way, please".

Stick to the description, give them what they want, and put the ref tracks in a playlist with your music. Is it a perfect fit? If so, you're very close. Then ask yourself "does this music force me to think 'yes we can' (or whatever motivational title you come up with)"? For example, their tune 'Onward to Glory' makes me think of 'Chariots of Fire' and all the emotional connection it has. Past the point of warm and motivational, the tracks we submit must be the epitome of what the title says it is. Not generalities, but the exact emotion of the title. I think I will cheat a little bit and come up with titles that match what I've written, rather than the other way 'round (my usual M.O.).

Good luck!

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Re: Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

Post by irthlingz » Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:46 pm

[We wrote this before seeing Alan's post. Will be digesting that next!]

Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment, André. Very much appreciated.
gitanosoy wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:13 pm
Hi Guys,

I don't know if those are the sounds you are going to be using or where you are at in regards to eq, mixing but you are going to use better recording if it is a real piano and drums or get better VST instruments and plugins, you are competing with tracks in the examples given.
In the beginning and ending sections of this piece (0:00-0:17 and 1:07 - end), we've got two piano tracks going in parallel (one of which is Pianoteq). From around 0:17 to 1:07 it's just Pianoteq. We always seem to get good feedback on the Pianoteq VST, so we're thinking we should probably just go back to pure Pianoteq and drop the other piano sound.

Here's a version which uses only Pianoteq. Wondering if that addresses the piano VST issue?



We'll look into the drums, too.
gitanosoy wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:13 pm
You need to start slowly with one or two tracks and slowly build up by adding other instruments without over doing it. Automation is key on tracks like this.
You're talking mainly volume automation?
gitanosoy wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:13 pm
Look at the wave form of the example how it increase...don't forget the edit points.
Our waveform on top, "A New Beautiful" ref below.

Image

We did try to do the layering in thing, as well as edit points. For example, the first 20 bars:
Four bars piano(s).
Eight bars piano(s) & drums.
Edit point
Eight bars piano(s), bass, drums

Another edit point at around 1:06.

Maybe not enough layering later on?
gitanosoy wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:13 pm

I have been listening to your tracks for a while now and I am sorry but you need to invest in some sound libraries if you want to go down this sync path .

Just trying to help so you get a forward sooner than later.
Thank you!

We did get Pianoteq early on and have generally gotten good feedback on it, which is one of the reasons we thought we might be able to succeed on this pitch. Other tracks in this piece are mostly "Real Tracks" from Band In a Box, so not VSTs, and presumably well recorded. Most likely it's the mixing, EQ etc. that needs work.

Thanks again!

===
Michael & Sharon

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Re: Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

Post by irthlingz » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:13 pm

AlanHall wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:13 pm
Too many chords! ... avoid going to the relative keys and stay away from the secondary dominants. It's simply not done in this kind of music. You've got a "yes we can" vibe going, then a relative minor throws the emotion out the window :o
Great, super-specific feedback. Thanks, Alan!

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Re: Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

Post by AlanHall » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:41 pm

irthlingz wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:13 pm
AlanHall wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:13 pm
Too many chords! ... avoid going to the relative keys and stay away from the secondary dominants. It's simply not done in this kind of music. You've got a "yes we can" vibe going, then a relative minor throws the emotion out the window :o
Great, super-specific feedback. Thanks, Alan!
I know how you love the sort-of-jazzy, sort-of-ragtime piano music; in my humble opinion it fits in a very small niche. Stretch your compositional chops out by really absorbing the ref tracks. Just listening to the first two again, they sound similar, because the both stay on the "one" chord for most of the cue (D, I think, according to the tuner on my phone) and have a turnaround with a Bm and an A chord, but don't stray very far or for very long.

Now, curiously, they say "We know that other Libraries like to receive music with complementary A and B sections, but this Library is NOT one of them – stick with ONE CENTRAL MOTIF per submission, please!" but the two ref tracks I just listened to do have an AABA structure, although I guess it could be argued that the B section maintains the same ONE CENTRAL MOTIF as the A, and doesn't deviate from the emotion.

The other curious thing is that the melodic aspect of the ref tracks is fairly strong simply because each emphasizes the (major) third of the scale so much. That by itself sure sounds motivational :D

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Re: Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

Post by superkons » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:13 am

One more thing to add to all the great advice that has been already given: make sure you end your piece on the SAME key you start with. Modulating key can be ok, depending on the context of course, and usually done in the "middle" of the piece, but the ending ALWAYS needs to be consistent, the reason being music editors always use the stinger ending as a way to punctuating the end of a scene, and if your tune has been used before that moment, then the attached stinger ending will totally sound out of place
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Re: Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

Post by cosmicdolphin » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:08 am

irthlingz wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:46 pm
Other tracks in this piece are mostly "Real Tracks" from Band In a Box, so not VSTs, and presumably well recorded. Most likely it's the mixing, EQ etc. that needs work.
Well that's half your problem there. If you 're relying on Band In A Box ( which is fairly hopeless IMHO and is not really suitable ), can't mix properly, are struggling to interpret the briefs and have neither the ear nor the gear..well.... you're going to struggle to make licensable music as things stand.

I hate to say it but I think I've heard enough tracks from you now to say I feel you should stop spending money on Taxi for a while and go get some proper training if you really want to have a chance of making progress in this game. The areas I would focus on are:

Production / Mixing / Mastering - If you can't do this then even the best tune in the world will get rejected....A well produced cue will always have a chance even if musically simple/basic

Vocal coaching - If you intend to continue with songs, a good teacher will also help with overall musicality ie. sense of rhythm, harmony etc.

Recording & arrangement - so when you do get a good idea you can lay it down well and develop it properly

Obviously this takes an investment of time & money, but if you would learn some valuable new skills and probably have a lot more fun along the way than getting a string of Taxi returns. I think after 12-18 months of solid work you would be in a much better position to reach the levels expected for job.

Mark

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Re: Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

Post by irthlingz » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:38 am

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:08 am

Production / Mixing / Mastering - If you can't do this then even the best tune in the world will get rejected....A well produced cue will always have a chance even if musically simple/basic
Yes! Thank you Mark. Great to know that there is a path forward through education and better gear.

And for others who might read this, we found this forum thread helpful on this topic.

===
Michael & Sharon
"Progress, not perfection"

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Re: Too much variety for this cue? (S211020MO)

Post by AlanHall » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:59 am

irthlingz wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:38 am
And for others who might read this, we found this forum thread helpful on this topic.
Thank you for that link! I've got to go for some deep diving now...

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