UPDATE #2: JAZZIN' IT UP!!

[ibanez468]

Mar 31, 2009, 10:14pm, greatmoves wrote:I would go one better than Mazz, If you are not able to go note by note and tweak the bass line, then get a real bass player.greatmoves, I can go note for note and tweak the bass line, and I am a real bass player. Just an FYI, I came up with every bass line on a real bass, and I can actually play them too. I also played the exact bass lines along with Trilogy just for comparison & credibility, and believe me, they didn't sound that much different from each other, otherwise, I wouldn't have gone along with it.Now you ask, "Well why didn't you just play the "real" bass then?" Because, at the time, I felt using Trilogy would be alot easier & alot faster than settin' up the "real" bass. Translation: I was lazy. I felt that it was very close enough to the "real" thing, that it would pass. If I hadn't mentioned that it was Trilogy, you might not've known what it was. In any event, I may just hafta throw the "real" thing on there eventually, if it doesn't pass bass-wise. I'll be sure ta' PM ya' with the "live" results, although it doesn't look like you're around much. Quote:but the computer bass ruins it... IMO any musician worth their salt would hear this, makes me wonder how much you paid those guys for those reviews I read I don't think it "RUINS" it, not totally anyway. Again, I played along with it using a "real" bass, and it really doesn't sound that much different. And I didn't hafta' pay anybody anything. I ain't holdin' on ta' that kinda' money boss. They were being kind to me, I think. ibanez468

[ibanez468]

Apr 1, 2009, 7:55am, mazz wrote:RE: Bassline. I'd love to hear it played by you.Well, looks like that's what I'm gonna' hafta' do in order to be more convincing. Quote:The part as it is sounds too "perfect", like it's the exact same velocity, timing, etc. for 2 bars over and over.C'mon Mazz, I thought that's what we were shootin' for here. Perfection! Right? Tril is one of the BADDEST bass payers I know! Naw, I gotcha'!Quote:I'll go back and listen for the guitar on the melody. Maybe it was so blended in I didn't pick it out. In any case, loosening up the sax and piano will help the "live" vibe.Yeah, I tried ta' play those melodies pretty tight on the geetar, so oftentimes it's hard to distinguish the guitar from the sax. Guitar is panned to the left, sax in the middle, piano moves toward the right in the higher registers. There's no tellin' how many takes I did until I felt it was on the money. I tried ta' do a few things in there to let it be known that there was a guitar part in there playin' the melody (small string slides, more vibrato, etc...) I'll see what I can do about it.We'll go ahead and throw a real bass part in there and see what happens. I'll try and do some variations ta' make it more convincing. I'll try and re-post when I'm done. Thanks dude!ibanez468

[greatmoves]

Nice to hear from you. You're right I usually only look and listen, saw your notice- Took time to listen and checked you out. You said it, re: the other members, they were being nice to you. bad combination "Being nice to an aspiring musician" when it comes to the Quality of their Music. The only section of world population where that works is from age 3 - preteen, " I might be wrong preteen might be a little high" Seriously, no kidding. My comment about musicians worth their salt, could also be re-phrased as, " If they respect you they will tell you the truth" Mazz touched on this the closest. My only intentions were to send you in a more open minded, dare I say better directionIf I understand you correctly, this is a loop of you, playing Bass. but when the chords change, the arppegio is the same just a higher botton note, this just doesn't sound musically interesting. Bottom line, I think the song has a heartbeat and pressure, But could benifit from some TLC in the DAW-ICU ward , with a specialist of your choosing.Write until it's Right... BB, Greatmoves

[ibanez468]

OK, here's the latest update on the bass track for this tune. Haven't modified anything else for right now, other than that, by replacing Trilogy with a "live" bass (and goin' with one of Mazz's ideas, as it was fairly easy enough ta' do). I wanna' try and get this straightened out first and then I'll address the other concerns that you all have mentioned. This bass track was "comped" from several other bass tracks that I recorded, so no copy & paste "looping" goin' on whatsoever with this one. I think I've lost a bit of edge/impact though, that I was gettin' from Trilogy sound-wise. This may sound a little thinner than Trilogy (maybe not), but at least it's the real deal. I tried ta' beef it up as much as possible (Guitar Rig 3-Bass Amps) without makin' the whole mix clip. And I tried ta' make it as convincing as possible by playin' different variations, my obvious imperfections & things like that. My poor thumb is still recovering from the long, grueling, vigorous workout. So lemme' know what ya' think about "THE BASS"! Will it pass now or back to the drawing board? Thanx!Savoir-Faire 2

[rld]

I heard the Trilogy version, and now this one.I use Trilogy a lot and while your original parts sounded good, I thought it was just too repetitive and some different patterns/lines would have helped to break it up.Kind of the same with this new version. That same aggressive pull note that happens over and over gets a bit tedious and I think you could get away with doing it less and having more variation...like what you've got in the bridge section...that grooves nicely.One of those less is more moments?...

[rld]

Quote:if he can do it, why can’t I?No biggie, I-man.Just trying to help with my opinion...you certainly can do whatever you want.

[ibanez468]

Apr 5, 2009, 8:34am, rld wrote:Quote:if he can do it, why can’t I?No biggie, I-man.Just trying to help with my opinion...you certainly can do whatever you want. Hey RLD!You're right man, no biggie at all. I DO really appreciate your help & your opinion. Did you listen to the youtube video, and kinda' get where I was comin' from though? My question "if he can do it, why can't I?" wasn't necessarily directed at you, it was just a generalized question. Hey man, I'm not mad atcha'. Ya' gave me what I asked for. Sometimes I feel like I gotta' explain why I did/didn't do one thing or another, just for some justification. Know what I'm sayin'? We ALL got our opinions/observations/$.02 though. But in the end, there's only one person's (screener ) that matters. I can roll wit it!ibanez468

[ibanez468]

Apr 5, 2009, 9:20am, billg wrote:This is cool! Slapping and popping bass parts are always hard to mix I think, at least they are for me. Man, as bass players we learn early on that bass is really meant to be repetitive, if it isn't there's no "glue".Hey Billg! Thanks for respondin'. Sometimes dude, I think you're only one of a few that actually "GETS" me. Quote:I think maybe there is a freq. you can cut that would allow the "pop" to lay better in the mix but it's probably a trial & error thing to get it right, and actually it's cool the way it is too.Yeah, it is a bit harsh, aint it? I'll try doin' some more tinkerin' around, and see if I can't mellow it all out a bit more. Thanks for listenin' & respondin' dude. 'Preciate it!ibanez468

[ibanez468]

Apr 6, 2009, 7:16pm, greatmoves wrote:I listened to the youtube clip. your songs bass-part IMO does not parallel the youtube one.Didn't say it did. I just mentioned to note the comparison of the "repetitiveness" of what he was playing at that point. I was strictly focusing on the "popping" sound and it's reptitiveness with every line that he played. Quote:their guy is playing through the whole piece, You are playing a loop, which deprives you from being interactive and spontaneous. IMO the bass style you used is NOT the best for this song. Did you listen to the second version? I'm not playing a loop, I'm playin' for real. Quote:You have been hemming and hawing so long about this song, you could have just re-recorded it (bass line) from scratch and been done with it.I did. Are you reading & comprehending any of the posts that have been written here greatmoves? 'Cause you just seem ta' be soundin' off without getting & understanding any of the facts first! Make sure you do some reading first (if you can) before you comment. Quote:have you tried listening to your song without the bass line and let the song send you in the right direction? Also, try doing a midi version of the bass part, then you can tryout different bass-voices.Nope. The song was written around the bassline, cause that's what came first. The bassline started the whole thing sir. The first version of the song "is" a midi version sir. You still gotta' get your facts straight moves. Quote:It's is so amateur that you as a question "if he can do it, why can't I?".... answer... it's SANTANA and they're really playing the song, no loops. That's like Saying, " If Micheal Jackson can release the piece of crap named "Butterflies" then you can release some of your crap you have been holding onto. NO YOU CANT. You don't have a history and you must hit the scene with GREAT stuff, not below par good stuff. Quote:You told me you are a bass player, now tell me did you play the the other parts also?I did. And? What's the point?Quote:Sounds to me that you are a little bruised because most people are not very impressed with the bass line and thats your instrument, so you are going to fight to the end.Nope. Not at all. Everyone has their opinion, just like you. And everyone here has responded tactfully, and I have tried to respond back tactfully. There's no fight goin' on moves! The only person here that seems to want a fight, is YOU! Quote:Thumping or fingering the bass is a preference, let the song choose what's appropriate don't force the parts, they should play nicely together.Exactly! Thumping & popping is preference, and that's what I chose to do with this particular song. What you can do for me greatmoves, is you can write me a bass part that you think would be appropriate for this tune. Download the tune or whatever, and then write me a bass part that "YOU" think would be appropriate for this tune. Then, send it to me, and I'll re-do it just for you. OK? Secondly, why don't you post some of your work on here so I can learn from you? That would help me out a great deal. Since I'm not doin' things the right way, then you can teach me your way. Fair enuff? I'll be waiting to hear from you on both counts.ibanez468

[ibanez468]

Apr 6, 2009, 9:51pm, sgs4u wrote:Hey Bruce, Opinions... I was bummed to read that you've hit a pot hole with this tune.Yeah, me too. Quote:This is the kind of tune that makes anyone a very proud musician. Unfortunately, screeners opinions and our forum contemporaries factor in, just because we opened up to that input.Thanks Steve. And yeah, you're absolutely right about that.Quote:Do you need this particular tune to be signed thru Taxi? Then go with Mazz advice. I can hear what the screener is saying, and what everyone else is too.I don't need it to, but it sure would be nice. Yeah, I'm hearin' it all alot better now, I guess. Quote:I think you have a totally kick-ass Louis Johnson bassline. I love your popping bass line. That coupled with the brassy synths, gives it an early 80s feel to me. Lots of wicked music came out of the 80s man. You were there too! Your EZdrums and percussion are wicked too. I love 'em. If screeners or forumers don't like your bass line cause it's too repetitive or slappy (not sloppy) I say screw 'em and do this track up exactly the way you dig it.Thanks. I may just have 2 or 3 different versions of it in the end. But mostly, I'll need a version that's gonna' be accepted by the powers-that-be. So, I'll work on it eventually, ta try and get it all straightened out. My enthusiasm for it has diminished for right now.Quote:Your piano playing on this track, sticks out to me, because it's not as exciting as the bass playing. Bass playing is HOT, piano playing is like, psst is the piano player doing the hiring? ... It's quantized too much for my liking. Left hand bits sound recorded separately from the right hand, which stops it from breathing right. I'm not digging the sax samples in this fusiony kind of tune cause a real guy would BLOW LIKE SANBORN over a set of changes, and a melody like yours. And I'm willing to bet you have lots of friends in Bearland that play like that.Gotcha! Yeah, you pretty much got it all figured out. Were you in my studio when I did this? I do know of a coupla' sax players that can BLOW!! Quote:I just think sometimes a song rises above "what listing can this work for." And I think you have a wonderful piece of music waiting for some extra love & happiness. I can hear the hundred hours you've put into this man. It's beautiful. I just think the strength of your composition is requires a riveting performance from piano & sax. Good luck man. Excellent writing! Thanks Steve! I really appreciate that you appreciate what I've tried to do. It's become obvious to me over the past year or so, that you've listened to alot of the same kind of stuff that I listened to at one time, and your "range" of musical styles/genres spread out quite far, from some of the posts that I've read from you. And it sounds like you really have an appreciation for ALL of it! I imagine bein' a keyboard player, you can't limit yourself to just this or that, you hafta' dig in there and take it all on. Just an observation. Thanks for respondin' dude. I appreciate it, and I'll take everything into consideration when I get back to this. Peace!ibanez468