Ustream Online marketing show with Bob B

[hwoodum]

Well, the show was kind of a bust as the feed was lost so many times. I actually had a question regarding this subject--first time ever. Anyway, since the show was so broken up and I couldn't view most of it and missed the question segment, I'll throw mine out to the group here.
I think the # 1 question you should ask when it comes to promoting your music, is do you play out, i.e., do you perform? Ariel Hyatt said that 85% of her clientele does not perform. That's a big number! But she never talks about those people when she mentions successful self-marketing/self-promoting artists. It always about a band that tours, or an artist who tours. When I asked her about it she evaded the question, which makes me wonder. At any rate, does anybody have any comment (s) on this, actual experience, or know anyone who is having success at self-marketing without playing out? I just wonder if it is really possible in this hi-tech world.

Thanks for your input. We do what we do because we have to.

[eeoo]

Hi Harry -
Unless yoou're already an established artist with a large and loyal following i don't see how a band or artist can break through without going out and playing shows. The exception to this rule that I know of is a band called Pomplamoose who have had great success with their youtube videos but they wouldn't be anything without their outstanding songs/production/musicianship. They are well worth checking out if you haven't already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oJgqbgvInk

Their originals are great but they also do a whole bunch of covers which I'm sure have contributed greatly to their success. And they are fellow Norcal-ians.

All the best Harry!

eo

[Hookjaw Brown]

Steely Dan never performed.......

I like to perform just to be able to see if a new song will work and the reaction from the public. I also use Jango for the same purpose.

First method leaves me with money in my pocket and tother takes it.

I have Ariel's Nine Steps book - "Music Success in Nine Weeks". The most IMPORTANT thing to realize is that a musician needs fans to succeed. Those fans can be music editors or music listeners and one must be able to satisfy them with good music.

To make Good music one needs criticism from professionals - thus Taxi A&R. The critiques and the peer to peer comments are invaluable in honing your craft.

We limit playing out to one or two times a month. More than that cuts into our song writing and recording time. The limits to music marketing are Time and Money, you only have to solve one of these to make something good happen.

[hwoodum]

Yes, it seems there are always a few exceptions to any situation. Steely Dan has always been an example that runs through my head. They were a phenomenon, but they had great backing (in the day when record companies worked with and developed artists) and great players working with them. Thanks Hookjaw. But these exceptions are rare, indeed. I'll have to check out Pomplamoose. Thanks Ethan. I know of a guy who is doing mostly online marketing and has developed quite a fan base. I'm not sure how successful he is, but he has built up his fan base and puts out good material. Lowercase Noises is the name and you can read about him on my blog or at his website. And I agree, time and money are the challenges when it comes to marketing. I just really started wondering after I heard Ariel on the "Building a Buzz" DVD put out by Disc Makers. She really made it sound like a doable thing, but then later I realized that she gave no stats beyond the percentage of non-performing musicians who use her service. I became very curious about the "realities" (and that's usually what you make it) of this whole thing especially since the whole music industry paradigm has changed.

Thanks for the feedback. "We do what we can..." Sheryl Crow.

[mojobone]

Actually, Steely Dan did do a couple of early tours.The shows were well-regarded, but lightly attended, and are generally thought to have had limited impact on the band's career, one way or another, as they didn't start to gain traction 'til after they stopped touring. (in any case, it turned out that their market didn't attend shows, either; they stayed home and listened to records on really good equipment-though SD's recent tours were record-breakers)

I'm not at all surprised if 85% of Ariel Hyatt's clients don't tour, but would be very surprised if any of her non-touring clients achieved any measure of lasting success, despite Ms Hyatt's worthy efforts. Fact is, almost nobody is making significant money from digital downloads/physical sales, these days, save for the Gagas and Biebers of the world, same as it ever was.

[ggalen]

I've been following this for a few years now.

People were really excited, energized, and extremely hopeful for a few years, but the excitement has died down as the reality has set in. You can see the entire change in tone on the artist responses (or lack of them) on music marketing forums.

It seems to me that the only ones making money with the "do it yourself" movement for artists are the marketing consultants.

It's now just like the California Gold Rush, where the people who made the money were the merchants selling picks, shovels, and gold mining pans to the many, many thousands looking to strike it rich. MOST of the miners made nothing.

Most artists now who have tried, have made no progress or money, so it's back to the day job. There is just too much "good enough" music out there, and nobody wants to pay for the music even if they like your stuff.

It's come down to poor marketing suggestions, like one I saw last week on Music Think Tank where the artist suggested donating your CDs to charities so they can SELL them and make money.

"Want to buy this CD from this new, unknown band?"

Good luck with that.

YES...someone wins in a state lottery every few days, but you'd be foolish to make winning the lottery your career plan.

[ggalen]

I think if you target a niche audience, and work hard to reach them, you may be able to have an appreciative audience and sell some CDs. Probably not enough to make it your primary income, but you could make something and enjoy doing it as an avocation.

It's better to do it as a side profession, though, is my thought.

[Hookjaw Brown]

I have found that people just don't want a CD. They will drop a $20 in the tip jar at our club performances and decline the offer of a free CD. We even offer the CD's at the "whatever you want to pay price" and there are few takers. The populace firmly believes that the internet will be available from now on and music will be free part of a service subscription.

Musicians will have to start wearing sponsor tags, just like Nascar drivers..

[hwoodum]

Yeah, gg, I hear ya on several fronts. The people selling the tools (marketing consultants) are the ones making the money and it makes sense that they would be. Artists are still hungry to share and sell. And the avocation is kind of where I have landed in the whole self-marketing arena, or maybe just do it for the love of it and give it away. Wow Hook, that's surprising. I thought everybody wanted free stuff, just because it's free! I suppose CDs have become too cumbersome in this hi-tech world. Still trying to get my head around that one. Amazon now offers a cloud service. Away it goes.
So if you want to share it, it looks like it's coming down to giving it away, like the old days of folk music where everybody owned it.....

....and we just keep writing because we're compelled.

[Hookjaw Brown]

Music bubbles up, out from your soul. Can't stop it. Have to play it. It is very hard for me to grasp how quickly CD sales dried up after having steady sales that more than paid for the cost of recording and printing. I am releasing digital singles only now.

The only income from digital sales I am seeing is from Napster, Rhapsody and Spotify and such and the amounts are pitiful. Each spin only earns $.0008, I would need 6 million spins a year to earn a living. The cost of marketing to achieve these kinds of numbers is unknown. The paid consultants can't answer this. Their crystal ball is only a little less cloudy than ours.

What is amusing is that Pandora requires a physical CD with barcode be available on Amazon.com before they will review any songs for radio play. Amazon.com is going to the cloud platform. Amazon will perhaps stop offering physical CD's.