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For what it's worth - it seems to be continuing dialogue - the conflict & contrast between fitting into 'proven' molds that succeed commercially,
v. 'do what is you' advice from the Mentors. Both of those points of view have been well-presented... even as recently as the 2019 Road Rally. Really.

Yet - it seems to be the narrowest of windows to be both innovative, creative, rule-bending AND break-through and stand out from the rest.
Very interesting debate - which can be frustrating when a critique is for NOT fitting in.
The on-going tension between NEW ART & current marketing.
"Be yourself, but conform and fit in with the rest of us." "Oh - and be '6 months ahead of the curve' ..."
push the envelope...
break the rules...
lead out...
follow your own compass...
chart a new course...
be a trend-setter...
just don't rock the boat.

hmmmm...

Interesting topic, Peter!

Both sides of the coin have been spoken to me as well... and like you said, some of them came from mentors at the rally.

For better or worse, I think the balance comes in the quality to originality ratio, if there is such a thing. In other words, if the quality of your stuff is high (whether it's production, songwriting skills, vocal talent, etc), it lends itself to one being able to have more originality and it be believable. If some of those things aren't all the way there, then the original characteristics of your music can be brushed over or looked down upon as another element that isn't up to par... when in reality, it might be very cool.

Regardless, I like the idea of pushing the boundaries that are in place. The trick is to do it jusssst enough to get people on board while still maintaining your originality.

Andrew

P.S. I was thoroughly enjoying the little jam session you guys had goin on in the lobby!

ResonantTone wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:59 am

If the quality of your stuff is high (whether it's production, songwriting skills, vocal talent, etc), it lends itself to one being able to have more originality and it be believable.

I couldn't have put it better either Andrew....reminds me of this meme that was doing the rounds last month - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAFUV9DXUAA ... name=small

Says it all really. The main 'box' you need to fit into, or conform with is that of being high quality. You gotta know the rules before you can break 'em.

IMark

If you are truly a composer you should have the ability to follow the trends and break the rules.

Each company you submit music to will have its own preference. Some will want to follow the pack and some will want to lead the pack. Write music for both. There is no need to limit oneself.

funsongs wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:12 am

Yet - it seems to be the narrowest of windows to be both innovative, creative, rule-bending AND break-through and stand out from the rest.
Very interesting debate - which can be frustrating when a critique is for NOT fitting in.


hmmmm...

Exactly!

"hmmm...

Casey's Rules of Songwriting:

(1) Follow all the "rules" of songwriting.

(2) An undeniably killer hook overrides #1.

Casey

If Im breaking rules, Im not aware of it. If I fit in, its not really intentional. I don’t really have different gears to calculate my music like that. I try to give it all I’ve got with each song and track, specs or no specs. Im a fan of doing it by intuition.

Its more a shoot for the moon and hit the top of a mountain type of thing, imo. You cant just be in a comfort zone, you gotta push it, all the time. Explore what you like, and try to make the most of that. What comes out of it may be just good enough to fit in, or it may sound fresh, or peeps wont like it.

funsongs wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:12 am

For what it's worth - it seems to be continuing dialogue - the conflict & contrast between fitting into 'proven' molds that succeed commercially,
v. 'do what is you' advice from the Mentors. Both of those points of view have been well-presented... even as recently as the 2019 Road Rally. Really.

Yet - it seems to be the narrowest of windows to be both innovative, creative, rule-bending AND break-through and stand out from the rest.
Very interesting debate - which can be frustrating when a critique is for NOT fitting in.
The on-going tension between NEW ART & current marketing.
"Be yourself, but conform and fit in with the rest of us." "Oh - and be '6 months ahead of the curve' ..."
push the envelope...
break the rules...
lead out...
follow your own compass...
chart a new course...
be a trend-setter...
just don't rock the boat.

hmmmm...

It's a headache hearing advice like "be yourself", but I think what they're saying is that you should not abandon what you love or make yourself uncomfortable to chase trends. At the same time, though, I think they neglect to say that IN ORDER TO SUCCEED you should still appeal to trends, but only if they align with what you actually love to create. Everyone listening can feel a lack of passion. Identity comes when a songwriter or composer passionately accepts that they are in a relationship with the mainstream but also realizes that this relationship does not require them to lose themselves or compromise their core values. It's the attitude they approach this relationship with that will decide how the mainstream listener will react to them.

NaeDae wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:30 pm

It's a headache hearing advice like "be yourself"

Doubly so if " yourself " is kinda dated sounding and sucks..in that case don't be yourself. Work toward getting your writing and production up to par, and when you get there then you can be yourself.

Mark

cosmicdolphin wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:47 pm

NaeDae wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:30 pm

It's a headache hearing advice like "be yourself"

Doubly so if " yourself " is kinda dated sounding and sucks..in that case don't be yourself. Work toward getting your writing and production up to par, and when you get there then you can be yourself.

Mark

There are probably a lot of elements of what you like that can be used to make something that sounds new.