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First, I have to say that hindsight is wonderful. It is easy to see now why "Since You've Been Gone" by Kelly Clarkson was such a hit song. I was reading the lyric sheet and thought, "Wow! Of course!!" The lyrics (mainly) read like conversation as they often say lyrics should -and- they are conversational in very modern terms as to how young people talk today. Particularly, this is true where she sings, "Here's the thing" and "I'm so over you".SINCE YOU'VE BEEN GONEHere's the thing we started off friendsIt was cool but it was all pretendYeah yeahSince you've been goneYou dedicated you took the timeWasn't long till I called you mineYeah YeahSince you've been goneAnd all you'd ever hear me say Is how I pictured me with youThat's all you'd ever hear me sayBut since you've been goneI can breathe for the first timeI'm so movin' on Yeah yeahThanks to youNow I getWhat I wantSince you've been goneHow can I put it? you put me onI even fell for that stupid love songYeah yeahSince you've been goneHow come I never hear you sayI just wanna be with youI guess you never felt that wayBut since you've been goneI can breathe for the first timeI'm so movin' onYeah yeahThanks to youNow I get I get what I wantSince you've been goneYou had your chance you blew itOut of sight, out of mindShut your mouth I just can't take itAgain and again and again and againSince you've been goneI can breathe for the first timeI'm so movin' onYeah yeahThanks to you (thanks to you)Now I getI get what I wantI can breathe for the first timeI'm so movin' onYeah yeahThanks to you (thanks to you)Now I get (I get)You should know (you should know)That I get I get what I wantSince you've been goneSince you've been goneSince you've been goneComments? Casey

Quote:However, to be honest, I can't remember the melody of this song one bit... not even from latent passive listening....ArkJack I gotta say, you guys have to take into consideration just how awesome a singer Kelly Clarkson is. She could sing names out of the phone book and make it a hit. Of course, if her team chose to release a tune with only names in it, her career might stall. The urgency of that song and the tension in it isn't only coming from the lyrics. I saw a youtube video of her a couple of weeks ago, sitting in with some rock band somewhere. She was very drunk, and thoroughly entertaining. I'll post a link when I find it.

I agree totally with what's been said following my post. I'm amazed at Kelly's vocal range and her vocal on that song! So, I shouldn't have implied that the lyric only was the reason it was such a hit. I'm just into lyric discussions lately and I like examples of lyric writing that are helpful to songwriters. When songwriters, like most of us, get feedback from pro-critiques it's good to have examples. Casey

Quote:Oh puh-lease....I've got two words for you..."Saturation marketing"Give me a break...Hi ONOFFON Why is this different than what happens with most songs that are heavily marketed as potential "hits"? They get massive amounts of airplay and this has been going on for decades. However, I do think she has great vocal ability and the song is a great one... JMHO... And I would love to be the one that wrote the song and gave it to her!! Casey

Hey Casey - I don't really find those lyrics to be particularly insightful or meaningful. In fact, I find them rather ordinary. Regardless, it's become a huge hit and that's more than I can say for anything I've ever written. I will also say, however, that if I had the marketing budget behind that song, I know of at least four of our tunes that I could promote to platinum status. But, that's neither here nor there - I'm sure I'll never have the chance to test my theory out... Speaking of hit songs, how about this one? It's actually nominated for a Grammy and will probably win - though I voted against it -"What you gon' do with all that junk?All that junk inside your trunk?I'ma get, get, get, get, you drunk,Get you love drunk off my hump.My hump, my hump, my hump, my hump, my hump,My hump, my hump, my hump, my lovely little lumps (Check it out)I drive these brothers crazy,I do it on the daily,They treat me really nicely,They buy me all these ices.Dolce & Gabbana,Fendi and NaDonnaKaran, they be sharin'All their money got me wearin' flyBrother I ain't askin,They say they love my ass ‘n,Seven Jeans, True Religion's,I say no, but they keep givin'So I keep on takin'And no I ain't takenWe can keep on datin'I keep on demonstrating.My love (love), my love, my love, my love (love)You love my lady lumps (love),My hump, my hump, my hump (love),My humps they got you,She's got me spending.(Oh) Spendin' all your money on me and spending time on me.She's got me spendin'.(Oh) Spendin' all your money on me, up on me, on me"I rest my case...

Quote:I don't really find those lyrics to be particularly insightful or meaningful. In fact, I find them rather ordinary. Regardless, it's become a huge hit and that's more than I can say for anything I've ever written. I will also say, however, that if I had the marketing budget behind that song, I know of at least four of our tunes that I could promote to platinum status. But, that's neither here nor there - I'm sure I'll never have the chance to test my theory out... Since when do pop hit songs have to have "particularly meaningful and insightful" lyrics?And you know Von I LOVE your music and think it's wonderful...but nothing I've ever heard of yours is a platinum hit song, and no amount of marketing money is gonna change that.IMHO just because you can play rings around probably anybody who's written a hit in the last 25 years and probably know ten times as many chords as most of them...that doesn't mean you can necessarily write a hit song. That's a very specific talent and craft. And when you belittle that...it just comes across as condescending.And that's a pity. matto

Quote:Quote:I don't really find those lyrics to be particularly insightful or meaningful. In fact, I find them rather ordinary. Regardless, it's become a huge hit and that's more than I can say for anything I've ever written. I will also say, however, that if I had the marketing budget behind that song, I know of at least four of our tunes that I could promote to platinum status. But, that's neither here nor there - I'm sure I'll never have the chance to test my theory out... Since when do pop hit songs have to have "particularly meaningful and insightful" lyrics?And you know Von I LOVE your music and think it's wonderful...but nothing I've ever heard of yours is a platinum hit song, and no amount of marketing money is gonna change that.IMHO just because you can play rings around probably anybody who's written a hit in the last 25 years and probably know ten times as many chords as most of them...that doesn't mean you can necessarily write a hit song. That's a very specific talent and craft. And when you belittle that...it just comes across as condescending.And that's a pity. mattoI think I learned a long time ago that comparing what you've written to hit songs on the radio, from the perspective that you feel yours is better, is a waste of time.Yours might be better by some or even many standards! Being the best isn't what always makes a hit. Having the right song at the right time, one that catches on with the public is what matters. Millions of dollars of marketing can make a song that has the right characteristics do well, but lacking that, the money won't help.I started this thread to mostly point out that the lyrical style of that song has the elements of a pop-hit.... conversational (the way people often talk nowadays), repeats a hook that everyone can identify with, "less is more", etc. Many people join TAXI or come to this board to learn how to write a hit. I think it's at least worth studying the lyrics to that song. Casey

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, Matt, and yours is duly noted.However, I completely disagree with you. Take, for instance, our song "Mardi Gras". In the days of Mp3.com, when it was owned by Universal/Vivendi, they actually chose to feature it on the front page of their website. When they did that, the song peaked on their overall Top 40 at #15, right next to Madonna, Faith Hill, Linkin Park, and Queens of the Stone Age. It held #1 on the Jazz charts for a total of 73 days. I know - you'll say, internet charts mean nothing, but I say they at least show potential. With the right marketing campaign, to the right demographic, that song could easily go platinum. On Mp3.com alone it was downloaded more than 100,000 times.And that's just that song. In total, we've had ten of our songs reach #1 on every website that we uploaded music to that have internet charts, including BroadJam, BeSonic, Mp3.com, GarageBand, and countless others I can't even remember.We don't simply write complex tunes with timing and chord changes to display our musical dexterity. In fact, many reviews we've received have stated how accessible our music is to casual listeners as well as aficionados.BTW, I'm sorry that you have to take my opinion as condescending and pitiful...

Matto, I never want to be on the other side of a debate with you. I believe a hit song is always a combination of 2 things. No matter how great a song is, it cannot be a "hit" until it has been listened to a few million times. Many of the people on this forum are writing potential hit songs, but without the marketing push of a label and artist continually flogging it, do we ever hear them?My definition of a hit song, has to include the fact that I've had it pumped into my head by various media. Even when I know a song is fabulous, it's not really a hit to me until it has been "exploited," to the masses. "My hump, my hump", is not a hit song for any other reason than it's been shoved into our ears by the biz. I love Fergie, I think she's actually a wicked singer/entertainer, but can that song be described as great? But there is no denying that it is a "hit." Sometimes the language we all use is very subjective. We all want to believe our songs matter, especially the ones we think could be hits. But aren't hit songs a little bit like GREAT BEER? We consume them, and quickly move on to the next. The labels release flavours, re-package old ones we love...I remember songs, and they're attached to the emotions I felt when I heard those songs. I was 17 when I first heard Janis Ian's "17." But the bubblegum/beer aspect of hit songs, will always be a huge part of the business of selling music. steve

Quote:condescending and pitiful... I don't think Matto said your opinion was pitiful...saying something is a pity is quite different.