Release signed by group or group's representative?
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- remmet
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Release signed by group or group's representative?
I'm toying with the idea of hiring a string production service to remotely record a string piece of mine. The service utilizes several string players who all have their own professional-sounding recording setup, and the parts are recorded separately, doubled or tripled if desired, and then sent back to the composer, both mixed and on separate tracks. I've heard their work, and they seem to do an excellent job.
I would pay the production service for the musicians' recording session, etc. In return, I would want a master recording free and clear of any further obligations. Knowing that almost any subsequent licensing opportunity will be contingent upon the master recording having no encumbrances on it, my question is what's the best type of Release in this situation, and who needs to sign it?
Thanks!
Richard
I would pay the production service for the musicians' recording session, etc. In return, I would want a master recording free and clear of any further obligations. Knowing that almost any subsequent licensing opportunity will be contingent upon the master recording having no encumbrances on it, my question is what's the best type of Release in this situation, and who needs to sign it?
Thanks!
Richard
- Casey H
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Re: Release signed by group or group's representative?
I would get the signatures of the actual musicians themselves. Without playing amateur attorney here, my concern would be whether or not the representative truly has the legal authority to sign for the musicians. If you get only the rep's signature, you could find down the road that a library or end user won't accept that or worse, although rare, have a musician come out of the woodwork and make a claim.
HTH
Caasey
HTH

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- remmet
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Re: Release signed by group or group's representative?
Thanks Casey. I'm also wondering about the possibility - based on a lower upfront recording rate - of agreeing (on some to-be-defined limited basis) to pay the musicians a little extra if and when I make money from selling the piece. In such case, I would make sure the agreement was worded to specifically indemnify the licensee, production company, or end user, etc., from any obligation on their part in regard to these musician payment(s). That would be solely MY responsibility.
My question is: Would such an agreement provide enough protection and assurance to potential licensees to avoid thwarting the deal? Or would they be likely to say, "Sorry, any deal we make with a composer must be entirely free of any further obligations to musicians, no matter who the obligated party is."
Interesting dilemma.
R
My question is: Would such an agreement provide enough protection and assurance to potential licensees to avoid thwarting the deal? Or would they be likely to say, "Sorry, any deal we make with a composer must be entirely free of any further obligations to musicians, no matter who the obligated party is."
Interesting dilemma.
R
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Re: Release signed by group or group's representative?
Hi Richard,
I am not sure if I understand your question and I don't fully know the answer but what Casey said makes sense. Get the individual musicians to sign an agreement. I would also make sure that anyone involved to sign off on it, so if there is a recording engineer there would be another agreement too. A mixing engineer yet another...
Now, I don't know, so don't trust this but I would think that if everyone involved signs a WFH you are free and clear for life. That is the whole idea of the WFH in the first place. - Maybe someone else can say for sure.
On a side note, if you have a little bit of time, like 2 weeks or so, I would be interested in talking about chipping in with you on this session for two additional songs totaling 5-6 minutes of actual music. Don't want to step into your deal but if you are open to it, I am still looking for a proper group to do a trio and a quartet in the very near future. (it could save us both a little if we bundle)
But I am a little gun shy after this past weekend so I would want to hear some samples of the work first...
I am not sure if I understand your question and I don't fully know the answer but what Casey said makes sense. Get the individual musicians to sign an agreement. I would also make sure that anyone involved to sign off on it, so if there is a recording engineer there would be another agreement too. A mixing engineer yet another...
Now, I don't know, so don't trust this but I would think that if everyone involved signs a WFH you are free and clear for life. That is the whole idea of the WFH in the first place. - Maybe someone else can say for sure.
On a side note, if you have a little bit of time, like 2 weeks or so, I would be interested in talking about chipping in with you on this session for two additional songs totaling 5-6 minutes of actual music. Don't want to step into your deal but if you are open to it, I am still looking for a proper group to do a trio and a quartet in the very near future. (it could save us both a little if we bundle)

- remmet
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Re: Release signed by group or group's representative?
Thanks Mike. Yeah, the WFH takes care of the first scenario. It doesn't address the other question as to whether it would impede a deal if I made an arrangement with the musicians to pay them something extra out of my own pocket. In any case, I'll probably go for the WFH plan, since the price difference is negligible.mikeymike2000 wrote:Hi Richard,
I am not sure if I understand your question and I don't fully know the answer but what Casey said makes sense. Get the individual musicians to sign an agreement. I would also make sure that anyone involved to sign off on it, so if there is a recording engineer there would be another agreement too. A mixing engineer yet another...
Now, I don't know, so don't trust this but I would think that if everyone involved signs a WFH you are free and clear for life. That is the whole idea of the WFH in the first place. - Maybe someone else can say for sure.
On a side note, if you have a little bit of time, like 2 weeks or so, I would be interested in talking about chipping in with you on this session for two additional songs totaling 5-6 minutes of actual music. Don't want to step into your deal but if you are open to it, I am still looking for a proper group to do a trio and a quartet in the very near future. (it could save us both a little if we bundle)But I am a little gun shy after this past weekend so I would want to hear some samples of the work first...
Regarding piggybacking a session, it doesn't work that way with this group. Each musician has his or her own studio setup in a different location and would be recording their parts at their own convenience (within a specified timeframe). The head of the company then takes the individual tracks and makes a temp mix for you to assess, and if any changes are needed, they are made at no extra cost (within reason). And the overall price is quite reasonable.
Here's a link to the company, and you can hear different things they've done.
http://christianhowes.com/our-work/
You can email Christian and get a quote.
This is the piece I may have them redo:
www.soundcloud.com/richard-emmet/roses-in-rain
Richard
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Re: Release signed by group or group's representative?
Hi Richard,remmet wrote: Thanks Mike. Yeah, the WFH takes care of the first scenario. It doesn't address the other question as to whether it would impede a deal if I made an arrangement with the musicians to pay them something extra out of my own pocket. In any case, I'll probably go for the WFH plan, since the price difference is negligible.
Regarding piggybacking a session, it doesn't work that way with this group. Each musician has his or her own studio setup in a different location and would be recording their parts at their own convenience (within a specified timeframe). The head of the company then takes the individual tracks and makes a temp mix for you to assess, and if any changes are needed, they are made at no extra cost (within reason). And the overall price is quite reasonable.
This is a nice piece but a few thoughts came to mind when listening. - It sounds like you have this set for a full orchestra. Did you consider that it will take on a rather different feel with only 4-5 players?
I am also curious of the price but that is prob not something to post publicly. Sorry to say but their orchestral recordings on the site didn't sound any different to me than a decent quality sample library. This makes me wonder how many players are in their big section demos.
The other concern is that each musician has their own set up. This means different mics, different acoustics and perhaps most important of all they will not be properly tuned to each other with so many variables. - Working with samples everything is always perfect. With real strings they will almost never be perfect concert pitch and when you have players in different studios doing different things at different times you may end up with some tracks that are noticeably out of tune with each other. - That right there is part of the magic of the full orchestra sound but when you reduce the size that magic becomes muck. Or, at least it could the way this process is described. (IMHO)
One last thought is that a 23 piece string orchestra on the low end is gonna be about $1,620/hour, and for that they record 3-5 minutes of music.
Not trying to be a pompous poop but I did want to let you know my thoughts to consider before you make your decision.
To the topic at hand as long as you have clearance and 100% control over the recording I don't think the end user will care if you choose to give the players cash out of your pocket. That is an accounting issue on your end only unless you word the agreement in a way that makes them part of the copyright. - But again, I would check these ideas before investing cash into an agreement for recording that has an open-ended bonus that "runs with the music".
Just trying to be helpful here and make you aware of some of the pitfalls I have encountered.

- Casey H
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Re: Release signed by group or group's representative?
Richard
It is very common for a WFH agreement to specify a percentage of earnings to be shared with the musician(s). AFAIK (non lawyer speaking!) it does not present any problems since you are responsible for that, not the licensing party.
I found that the cleanest way is to specify a percentage on upfront license fees since those are single payments and easy to manage, whereas PRO revenue comes in periodically.
Obviously, I can't comment on exact wording of agreements because I would be treading into legal advice waters. There are some sample WFH agreements out there. One is on John Braheny's site (RIP John!)... http://johnbraheny.com/resources/work-f ... agreement/
Casey
It is very common for a WFH agreement to specify a percentage of earnings to be shared with the musician(s). AFAIK (non lawyer speaking!) it does not present any problems since you are responsible for that, not the licensing party.
I found that the cleanest way is to specify a percentage on upfront license fees since those are single payments and easy to manage, whereas PRO revenue comes in periodically.
Obviously, I can't comment on exact wording of agreements because I would be treading into legal advice waters. There are some sample WFH agreements out there. One is on John Braheny's site (RIP John!)... http://johnbraheny.com/resources/work-f ... agreement/

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- remmet
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Re: Release signed by group or group's representative?
Thanks Mike and Casey for your comments and suggestions. I think I have a pretty good idea now how I want to proceed.
I'll let you know how it turns out!
Richard
I'll let you know how it turns out!
Richard
- Casey H
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Re: Release signed by group or group's representative?
Your welcome... Don't forget to put me in for 20% as well.remmet wrote:Thanks Mike and Casey for your comments and suggestions. I think I have a pretty good idea now how I want to proceed.
I'll let you know how it turns out!
Richard


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- remmet
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Re: Release signed by group or group's representative?
You drive a hard bargain, Casey, but fair is fair. Your 20% consultation fee is in the mail (someday).Casey H wrote:Your welcome... Don't forget to put me in for 20% as well.remmet wrote:Thanks Mike and Casey for your comments and suggestions. I think I have a pretty good idea now how I want to proceed.
I'll let you know how it turns out!
Richard![]()

Richard
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