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Hey everybody, I’m working with a library on a song that had three collaborators. Two of us are with BMI and one is with ASCAP. The library owner is saying that he can’t have a mix of PROs in the metadata used on cue sheets. He is saying we have to have all of the writer’s share go to one PRO and then split it after the fact. This doesn’t seem correct to me. Has anyone encountered this and know how it is handled? This has to happen all the time. Also, if we do have a it flow through one of us, does anyone know how we’d determine how to split the royalties out. The royalty statements I’ve seen haven’t had that kind of detail. Any help would be appreciated!!

You're right. Co-writers with different PROs happens all the time, often with PROs in different countries. Collaboration would be pretty awkward if that wasn't 'allowed', and as long as all they all have a PRO then it shouldn't be an issue. If the library is telling you something different then I'd be concerned about the library. Other libraries cope with it.

In theory, you could take the whole of the writer's share, but then you'd also take on the role of checking and re-distributing royalties for that music to your co-writers every quarter. Imagine doing that for lots of different tracks with lots of different co-writers every few months - forever? You've become a PRO .

Something is very wrong here, this makes zero sense at all. Writers from different PROs happen all the time-- registrations, cue sheets, etc. This person doesn't know what they are doing. I'm curious. How did you come across this library, if you can say?

Casey

If memory serves, there was a congressional proposal about 5-7 years ago which would have made this very thing into part of "royalty law" - in essence forcing composers from one PRO to only write with people from their same PRO. I don't remember the details of this, or why it was even brought to congress, but it never saw the light of day. And for good reason.

Does anybody remember more about that?

Anyway, this is obviously wack. Like Casey, I'd also be curious to know how you came to be hooked up with this library. Did you find them on your own? For me, this requirement is a giant red flag that he/she doesn't know what's going on, and I'd proceed with a large amount of caution on this one.

For what it's worth, I have literally HUNDREDS of songs written with co-writers from other PRO's signed to various libraries, and there hasn't been one single issue with it, ever, in the 13-14 years I've been in this game.

~~Matt

This sounds very strange, as the others mentioned people collab all the time with writers from different PRO's and different countries. I've got lots of them too and the library just asked us each for our CAE/IPI number.

Not sure why the library owner would tell you this, it sounds very odd. Unless there has been some misunderstanding ? It shouldn't really make any differnce to the library as they just collect the publishing and supply the CAE/IPI number of each writer - they really shouldn't be concerned about which PRO the writer is with.

Thanks everybody for responding so quickly. I'm relatively new at this but based on everything I've come across this situation seemed pretty normal and one the library should be able to deal with. I got connected to this library after collaborating on a song with a friend who had joined this library. I don't actually know how he found them. I can definitely say it was not through Taxi. I appreciate the cautionary advice.

Here's some more for the library: The say that as a publisher they get red flagged from BMI if they try and give credit to an ASCAP artist on BMIs platform. The same goes for ASCAP if a publisher tries to give credit to a BMI artist on the ASCAP platform the red flag comes up.

I don't know the mechanics behind how publishers register works that have collaborators from multiple PROs and, honestly, I don't want to know. I want to be an artist, not a publisher. But clearly, as everybody has indicated, this happens all the time with other libraries, so they know how to do that.

davedougherty wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:14 pm

Here's some more for the library: The say that as a publisher they get red flagged from BMI if they try and give credit to an ASCAP artist on BMIs platform. The same goes for ASCAP if a publisher tries to give credit to a BMI artist on the ASCAP platform the red flag comes up.

I don't know the mechanics behind how publishers register works that have collaborators from multiple PROs and, honestly, I don't want to know. I want to be an artist, not a publisher. But clearly, as everybody has indicated, this happens all the time with other libraries, so they know how to do that.

Horsepoop! Run... Run away.... Keep running!

I don't actually know how he found them. I can definitely say it was not through Taxi.

Well there ya go. As if figured!

Now, to give this library the benefit of the doubt, they MIGHT be referring to the fact that each publisher needs to be registered as different entities in both ASCAP and BMI, so their publishing company can represent the writer with the same PRO.

For example, let's say "Amazing Song" is co-written by Johnny (ASCAP) and Bob (BMI), then signed to Library Dude. Well, Library Dude would need two publishing entities. Let's call them Great Library (ASCAP) and Dude Music (BMI), but they are actually both the same company "Library Dude".

The track registration would look like this:

AMAZING SONG
Writers: Johnny 50% (ASCAP) and Bob 50% (BMI)
Publishing: Great Library 50% (ASCAP) and Dude Music 50% (BMI)

I don't think that's what this library is referring to, but perhaps it is.... just trying to give them some credence and see this as being a misunderstanding on your part. If not, run for the hills!

~~Matt

BMI has a sample cuesheet that has both ascap and bmi listed.


https://www.bmi.com/creators/detail/what_is_a_cue_sheet

if they take issue with you sending a page titled “what is a cue sheet” thats their issue.