Anyone go to the Video Game conference at the Rally?

[fusilierb]

Just curious as to what was said. Anyone who attended want to share some golden nuggets of wisdom about thee gaming business to those who weren't there?
Thanks,
B

[jeffrey]

The game panel was the best part of the conference for me. Bob Rice perhaps the coolest person in the music industry i have heard speak and the 3 writers were down to earth, hysterical, with jaw dropping cool music . Micheal suggested that it might be time perhaps for the game composers to organize; as these guys are BIG business and get no back end unlike EVERY OTHER part of the industry. Something i'm interested in general too.

One thing that bob said was "don't contact me if you are as good as these guys( pointing to the composers in the panel) .... I have these guys already, if you want to work with us you have to do something better or new... then contact me". For me that pulled an exacting focus on the goal here.

Also there was some talk about writing styles when writing for unknown play lengths... Was really cool.

on a personal note i have heard some of your stuff on the site here... i think you are really on your way

-jeffrey

[hummingbird]

I was there, but unfortunately lost my notes. But I can tell you that composing for games is like scoring films. You need to have all the tools and skills, including orchestration, for the big games. The smaller games perhaps will use lesser known composers and less live orchestra - that's where to break in. They also said that (unlike film) people buy games because their favourite composers have composed the music.

[mazz]

The thing that stuck with me most from the panel was what jeffrey already mentioned and I mentioned it in other threads: "don't send me what I already have, I want to hear stuff that's better than what I already have" and he gestured to the 3 composers sitting next to him on the panel. That really inspired me because it seems he's looking for something different and someone with a unique take on composing (my interpretation), and I'm running with that for this listing.

The other good part for me was the talk about composing for non-linear media, which is game play. There's no way to know how long someone will stay on a certain level and them music has to engage them without becoming boring, even if they're on that level for 30 minutes or more. That's about understanding at a high level how games are programmed and also the whole collaborative aspect of working with the developers and the dance of how much music to write, how much music will fit in the memory or bandwidth, how to make it "loop" without sounding looped, and so forth. I don't remember specifics, but what stuck with me is that composing for games at that level requires not only the chops and skills of music, but the people/collaborative skills and the openness to learning new ways of working within the constraints of the game story, the platform technology, etc. It's a different mindset than film because you don't know how it's going to end and you have to write music that is able to transition to several different scenarios depending on what the player does. The filmic aspect comes in when you're writing an intro to a level or some other static non-interactive portion of the game, the rest is a different way of thinking about the final composition.

It's a big challenge and a very large industry compared to film, at least as far as revenue is concerned.

The music they played sounded awesome, obviously they have access to great production resources beyond what any of us have, but frankly, I wasn't blown away by the compositions. They were certainly very excellent and well heard, but nothing that was life changing to me. Some of that is for sure how they are directed to compose, I'm sure a game score is much the same as a film score, the score is only partly the result of the composer, a large part of it is a product of the collaboration with the producers and directors. These guys have chops and experience, no doubt, but there are some here who can compete with them, we just need to bring our own interpretation to the table.

Bring it!

Mazz

[fusilierb]

The game panel was the best part of the conference for me. Bob Rice perhaps the coolest person in the music industry i have heard speak and the 3 writers were down to earth, hysterical, with jaw dropping cool music . Micheal suggested that it might be time perhaps for the game composers to organize; as these guys are BIG business and get no back end unlike EVERY OTHER part of the industry. Something i'm interested in general too.

One thing that bob said was "don't contact me if you are as good as these guys( pointing to the composers in the panel) .... I have these guys already, if you want to work with us you have to do something better or new... then contact me". For me that pulled an exacting focus on the goal here.

Also there was some talk about writing styles when writing for unknown play lengths... Was really cool.

on a personal note i have heard some of your stuff on the site here... i think you are really on your way

-jeffrey

Hey Jeffrey, thanks for the info and the encouragement! The backend comment was interesting. I never thought of that before with game music. I guess there's no good way to track game play. Maybe a small cut of "units sold", but I can't imagine the gaming companies going for that after so long of it not being in place. I'm easily as interested in game scoring than film scoring, if not more.
B

[fusilierb]

The thing that stuck with me most from the panel was what jeffrey already mentioned and I mentioned it in other threads: "don't send me what I already have, I want to hear stuff that's better than what I already have" and he gestured to the 3 composers sitting next to him on the panel. That really inspired me because it seems he's looking for something different and someone with a unique take on composing (my interpretation), and I'm running with that for this listing.

The other good part for me was the talk about composing for non-linear media, which is game play. There's no way to know how long someone will stay on a certain level and them music has to engage them without becoming boring, even if they're on that level for 30 minutes or more. That's about understanding at a high level how games are programmed and also the whole collaborative aspect of working with the developers and the dance of how much music to write, how much music will fit in the memory or bandwidth, how to make it "loop" without sounding looped, and so forth. I don't remember specifics, but what stuck with me is that composing for games at that level requires not only the chops and skills of music, but the people/collaborative skills and the openness to learning new ways of working within the constraints of the game story, the platform technology, etc. It's a different mindset than film because you don't know how it's going to end and you have to write music that is able to transition to several different scenarios depending on what the player does. The filmic aspect comes in when you're writing an intro to a level or some other static non-interactive portion of the game, the rest is a different way of thinking about the final composition.

It's a big challenge and a very large industry compared to film, at least as far as revenue is concerned.

The music they played sounded awesome, obviously they have access to great production resources beyond what any of us have, but frankly, I wasn't blown away by the compositions. They were certainly very excellent and well heard, but nothing that was life changing to me. Some of that is for sure how they are directed to compose, I'm sure a game score is much the same as a film score, the score is only partly the result of the composer, a large part of it is a product of the collaboration with the producers and directors. These guys have chops and experience, no doubt, but there are some here who can compete with them, we just need to bring our own interpretation to the table.

Bring it!

Mazz

Hey Mazz, to be honest, I still don't really understand how to bring him something different from those guys. They sound like what those games are supposed to sound like. But I'm definitely just gonna let one rip on how I would do a game if left to my own. I'm curious to hear what makes it through and what doesn't on this one.

My favorite part of game music is the non-linear aspects. My first immersive game experience was Myst and I loved the "triggers" that set certain musical loops in play. I'm glad you brought that up and I'd be interested on any more info they might have given around those aspects. Did they mention any software packages that you had to be familiar with? I know a lot of these games are coded in certain languages and apps and that the music has to be placed using those tools. Did they give a sense of just how wide open this market was for writers, or is it already shutting its doors like the hollywood game?

And yes, game music will not change your life. It is what it is and its usually highly dramatic, simple, music. To my ears, its almost like scored versions of rock tracks with epic flavors. I kind of like that part about it. Maybe its just because I can churn out those simple'r' things faster than not. But over the past five years or so the level or composition skills coming out of the speakers of my xBox are becoming better and better. I especially like the Assasin's Creed music.

Looking forward to learning more about this Rally from others who might have attended.
B

[mazz]

The reason for the "no backend" on games music that was given in the panel is that then they'd have to give it to the programmers and artists, etc. that all worked on the game as well. It's basically to keep things equitable for all of the creators involved. I didn't hear any numbers, but those guys seemed to be pretty darn happy with the composing fees they were getting for these games. Maybe it's possible that they have negotiated something for soundtrack releases and/or live performances (hence the Video Games Live series of concerts).

They didn't really dig down too much into specific game software but they did touch on having to interact with that and having some knowledge of how the music is triggered, etc. I didn't take notes so I can't relate specifics.

It's difficult for me to determine how different or outside the realm of standard game music or what these guys write to go with this listing. As an on demand composer, sometimes I get bogged down in trying to please the marketplace by giving them something that sounds like what they hear in other shows, or whatever, which is often what they are asking for, and I'm pretty good at doing it and I think it's fun. It can be difficult to break out of that mindset and think of something that's just original enough to tweak someone's ear but not so far off the beaten track that it's just not even close. And, of course, we're not inside his head, so we'll never really know exactly what he's looking for or how he hears music.

My philosophy for this listing so far has been:

Try to be myself and write to my strengths without being overly influenced by the a las so as to parrot them. Hit the styles mentioned in the listing, do my absolute best, submit and pray.

I'm not a gamer so you're way out in front of me on that aspect, for sure!!

I wish I had the magic formula or more information. Good luck!

Mazz

[fusilierb]

The reason for the "no backend" on games music that was given in the panel is that then they'd have to give it to the programmers and artists, etc. that all worked on the game as well. It's basically to keep things equitable for all of the creators involved. I didn't hear any numbers, but those guys seemed to be pretty darn happy with the composing fees they were getting for these games. Maybe it's possible that they have negotiated something for soundtrack releases and/or live performances (hence the Video Games Live series of concerts).

They didn't really dig down too much into specific game software but they did touch on having to interact with that and having some knowledge of how the music is triggered, etc. I didn't take notes so I can't relate specifics.

It's difficult for me to determine how different or outside the realm of standard game music or what these guys write to go with this listing. As an on demand composer, sometimes I get bogged down in trying to please the marketplace by giving them something that sounds like what they hear in other shows, or whatever, which is often what they are asking for, and I'm pretty good at doing it and I think it's fun. It can be difficult to break out of that mindset and think of something that's just original enough to tweak someone's ear but not so far off the beaten track that it's just not even close. And, of course, we're not inside his head, so we'll never really know exactly what he's looking for or how he hears music.

My philosophy for this listing so far has been:

Try to be myself and write to my strengths without being overly influenced by the a las so as to parrot them. Hit the styles mentioned in the listing, do my absolute best, submit and pray.

I'm not a gamer so you're way out in front of me on that aspect, for sure!!

I wish I had the magic formula or more information. Good luck!

Mazz

That makes sense about the back end. I'm really looking forward to your take on this listing Mazz. No matter what happens, its gonna be great. I started a few different cues that I'm feeling pretty good about. There's no super huge rush here, so I'm gonna take my time and have fun and then string em together somehow. If it turns his ear, fine. If not, I'm getting three pretty cool new things out of this one.

Gaming is huge and is really just about to get bigger. I can see it rivaling film/tv down the road as the lines between the two are blurring and games are more immersive in that you are the main character. This is the first game specific listing I've ever seen around here, and its just kind of exciting.

Let's go get 'em!
B

[jeffrey]

on this topic...i'm wundering does everyone else here play games. I love the music but never got into playin games or bought the consoles ....i'm asking my self if i should . what are your thoughts gang?

[fusilierb]

I do, but its not like I have a problem. I mean, I can quit at any time.

I'm actually not a huge gamer. I have an xBox and a hand full of titles. It depends what you are into, but today's games are very immersive, gorgeous to look at and sound fantastic. If you're interested in writing music for games, then you should at least be familiar with them and how game music maps to game play. It's not quite like other types of scoring because its non-linear. There is no definite beginning and end, for the most part, just looping cues that create motion behind whatever part of the game you happen to be in.

B