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I had a little debate with a friend last night. He said that if the big sports arenas played under 30 seconds of a song, they didn't have to pay royalties. i argued that i have never ever heard of that before and didn't believe him. He continued to say that he used to put the music together for a big texas basketball team and didnt have to worry about royalties (sorry i dont follow basketball so i dont know the name of the team) can anyone clear this point up for me ...... is he right?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think it's true-- sounds like a myth.

I mean... restuarants can't even sing "Happy Birthday" anymore without paying royalties and that's probably under 30 seconds.

If you really want a definitive answer, call ASCAP or BMI and ask.

Casey

thanks

I think it's just a myth people use to justify not licencing anything. On another thread we were discussing when copyright is violated - someone asked how many bars you could play of an existing melody before you were breaking the law. As soon as the tune is recognizable. With Beethoven's 5th, that would be 4 notes, for example.

The scoop: Arenas and stadiums do pay royalties on the popular music they use, by purchasing an annual (or other negotiated term) blanket license from the PROs, in similar fashion to bars, restaurants and coffeehouses; this is why major artists have had difficulty suing over the use of their individual songs by political parties and politicians that rent stadiums-even though the songs are often heard over the air, they're technically not being broadcast. In the event of actual broadcast use, any length at all is payable, and the first bump is at 15 seconds, IIRC. Rates are little different, depending which PRO and whether the track is instrumental or vocal.

stevecollom wrote:I had a little debate with a friend last night. He said that if the big sports arenas played under 30 seconds of a song, they didn't have to pay royalties. i argued that i have never ever heard of that before and didn't believe him. He continued to say that he used to put the music together for a big texas basketball team and didnt have to worry about royalties (sorry i dont follow basketball so i dont know the name of the team) can anyone clear this point up for me ...... is he right?

Your friend probably never had to worry about royalties because these stadiums pay an annual rate. Unlike TV broadcasters that pay according to cue sheets on each song.

oh very .......... interesting i cant wait to tell him what he doesn't seem to know .............. hahaha

Man, this topic sets off a nuclear reaction for me. Around 10 or so years ago, I and another guy created 2 or 3 CDs worth of music, sfx, and "action prompts" for use at sporting events. This material was commissioned by and licensed to the pro basketball team here in Portland. The team is owned by a very very very rich man. One of his other companies developed a computer playback system which incorporated our material and allowed the game operations personnel to instantly trigger any of the cues during the sporting event. This technology (with our material installed) was then sold to teams worldwide, including high school, college, minor league, and major league teams. Our material has been - and is still being - used EVERY DAY by basketball, baseball, hockey, probably soccer, and possibly other teams all around the world.

I've tried for years to find a way to get performance royalties for this ongoing widespread usage of our material, to no avail so far. My co-writer thinks that we'd have to go to each and every team that uses our stuff and make a separate contract with them. That could amount to 500 to 1000 separate contracts, perhaps less if we only went after the professional teams. But the time and effort involved would make it virtually impossible. And the last time we asked, ASCAP was not helpful at all.

Yes, a clear and concise contract with our home team - up front - might have made a difference. From such disasters insight is born.

Richard

remmet wrote:Man, this topic sets off a nuclear reaction for me. Around 10 or so years ago, I and another guy created 2 or 3 CDs worth of music, sfx, and "action prompts" for use at sporting events. This material was commissioned by and licensed to the pro basketball team here in Portland. The team is owned by a very very very rich man. One of his other companies developed a computer playback system which incorporated our material and allowed the game operations personnel to instantly trigger any of the cues during the sporting event. This technology (with our material installed) was then sold to teams worldwide, including high school, college, minor league, and major league teams. Our material has been - and is still being - used EVERY DAY by basketball, baseball, hockey, probably soccer, and possibly other teams all around the world.

I've tried for years to find a way to get performance royalties for this ongoing widespread usage of our material, to no avail so far. My co-writer thinks that we'd have to go to each and every team that uses our stuff and make a separate contract with them. That could amount to 500 to 1000 separate contracts, perhaps less if we only went after the professional teams. But the time and effort involved would make it virtually impossible. And the last time we asked, ASCAP was not helpful at all.

Yes, a clear and concise contract with our home team - up front - might have made a difference. From such disasters insight is born.

Richard

Man Richard, your story makes me sick to my stomach!
Did you ever run this by a lawyer?
It would be nice if you could at least get a buyout.

Marc

remmet wrote:Man, this topic sets off a nuclear reaction for me. Around 10 or so years ago, I and another guy created 2 or 3 CDs worth of music, sfx, and "action prompts" for use at sporting events. This material was commissioned by and licensed to the pro basketball team here in Portland. The team is owned by a very very very rich man. One of his other companies developed a computer playback system which incorporated our material and allowed the game operations personnel to instantly trigger any of the cues during the sporting event. This technology (with our material installed) was then sold to teams worldwide, including high school, college, minor league, and major league teams. Our material has been - and is still being - used EVERY DAY by basketball, baseball, hockey, probably soccer, and possibly other teams all around the world.

I've tried for years to find a way to get performance royalties for this ongoing widespread usage of our material, to no avail so far. My co-writer thinks that we'd have to go to each and every team that uses our stuff and make a separate contract with them. That could amount to 500 to 1000 separate contracts, perhaps less if we only went after the professional teams. But the time and effort involved would make it virtually impossible. And the last time we asked, ASCAP was not helpful at all.

Yes, a clear and concise contract with our home team - up front - might have made a difference. From such disasters insight is born.

Richard

Richard,
Really sorry to hear this. Totally sucks. I would strongly suggest you contact a good entertainment lawyer. They could get a lot more head-way at this stage than you & your friend going at it alone.

Good luck.