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No royalties attached??

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:19 pm
by k o star
I'm in negotiations with a film director now... After I gave them my rates, they tell me that there's another composer willing to charge them just a little more & with no royalties attached which sounds like a buy-out deal the composer is offering...I'm puzzled about the "no royalties attached" part cos I've never heard of such a thing... Is it possible to sell Ur compositional rights to the point of having no royalties attached to future earnings?? If so, is it worth doing that?I would think that I'd rather give my songs for free & have royalties attached for later income...Also, wondering about something else... who actually pays Our royalties?? The Tv stations or the Directors or whomever else??? I've been wondering about this for a while now... really wanna know...Somebody, pls advice... I'm a little lost here...Kel

Re: No royalties attached??

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:35 am
by mazz
For any broadcast or non-US theatrical performances, your PRO will pay the royalties, as long as the film company files the cue sheets. You can do it for them and have them submit it.They are under the impression that they are responsible for royalties, which is not the case, unless you negotiate that with them. What they may be thinking are royalties are actually known as "bumps", which are extra payments when the income from the film reaches certain levels. Most films don't make any money so this might be something that you can do away with in your negotiations.HTH,Mazz

Re: No royalties attached??

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:00 am
by k o star
Thanks so much Mazz for that really useful info...Yes, I do think that they are under that impression for some strange reason...& becos the deal is that no one else can use the music... & they expect a rather low budgeted rate...I don't think I should let go of my royalties rights too... doesn't make sense...Maybe they jsut misunderstood what the other composer offered??Appreciate the explanation & time taken...-Kel

Re: No royalties attached??

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:44 am
by mazz
You're getting your terms mixed up.If they want to own the music, then they will own the copyright and the publishing, but you are still entitled to the writer's share of the performance royalties, which is paid by the PRO, not by the film company.All of the royalty discussion is separate from the actual one time composer fee that you negotiate for composing the music in the first place.One thing you can do if they insist on owning the music is to insist that they cannot use it for any purposes outside the film that it was written for. They can use it for any promotion, etc. for this film, but they can't use it over and over for their next 10 films. If they want to use it over and over, then they should re-license it from you. This is NOT a royalty but a license/sync fee. I doubt you'll have to go into this but it's worth knowing.You really, really, need to take some time out from writing and do your homework on this stuff. This is really basic stuff you need to understand.I took a seminar years ago from the guy that wrote this book and it's very understandable and covers pretty much everything that I just mentioned. It's one of a few music business books you need to invest in and study:http://www.amazon.com/Film-Television-Co....18198 00&sr=8-1Good luck,Mazz

Re: No royalties attached??

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:56 am
by mazz
Hey, wasn't coming down on you for not knowing this stuff. It's just that you're cranking out so much good stuff that you will be getting deals and you need to be prepared not only musically, but business-wise too.It's easier to understand than learning an instrument or a DAW, by far, but it's just as important.Cheers!Mazz

Re: No royalties attached??

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:57 pm
by chriscarter
Usually when a film director is talking about not wanting to pay royalties, they are talking about royalties for DVD sales, which operates much like a mechanical royalty in that it's a certain percentage, or a certain number of cents, per copy.It's not uncommon to ask for a buyout for "home video" (ie. DVDs, and these days, downloads). With small film producers, you have to weigh whether or not you want a royalty on sales. Many of these companies are really incapable of actually accounting them, and they might be too small to really have to chase down. In these cases it can sometimes be smarter to ask for a higher fee and skip the royalties. Yes, it's a gamble. You can also split the difference by doing a "rolling royalty" where you get an up front fee for the first XXXXX number of units. Then if they want to distribute another XXXXX units, they have to pay the fee again, and again, and again. It's easy accounting so they sometimes will go for this.That said, back to a traditional royalty, for any independent company I strongly recommend skipping percentages or anythign that requires a calculation. Just go with X.X cents per copy.As other have pointed out, they don't pay the performance royalties.

Re: No royalties attached??

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:06 pm
by k o star
It's cool Mazz... I didn't think that U were coming down on me. I truly Appreciate U taking the time to share these info & I totally agree with U that I need to learn fast... Just received their email after sending my 1st draft...They heard it, love it & now wants me to give them a buy out price for 5 pieces of that similar style...Now I need to decide what is a good buy-out price??In the email they said they do not want to worry abt royalties everytime they re-air it on the web...Is this where I explain to them that they do not pay me performance royalties but my PRO does each time they re-air it???Man... I've got to really learn fast now...Really Appreciate Ur advice & recommended reading Mazz... Thank U!Chris... Thank U so much for that in-depth info... I think I'm gonna explain this info to them too about royalties on sales, in this case for downloads...According to what they've said so far, I'm pretty sure they do not want to deal with "rolling royalty" or any of the royalties on sales...Looks like what I have to do for now is explain to them they're not paying me for performance royalties & also to up my fees a bit to skip sales royalties...I hope I'm on the right track here???I will definitely do more research & readings but for this case I'm in a spot I have to act fast I guess... as they're waiting on my reply...Thanks All for sharing...-Kel

Re: No royalties attached??

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:02 pm
by fullbirdmusic
In large films, it's customary that the composer works as a "work for hire," and all music written belongs to the studio producing the film. Disney, for example. If it's a work for hire, the studio owns all the copyright and publishing, but the fee up front is usually substantial (think about what John Williams might make doing a Spielberg film). Keep that in mind when negotiating your upfront fee and remember that they will own the music after it's finished. This is what I understand your competitor is doing, which is fine, if that's what he/she wants. It's standard practice, but usually on larger, higher-paying films.

Re: No royalties attached??

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:39 pm
by k o star
Yes, I did think about this after reading up some infos... Ur confirming what I've come to understand...Thank U Fullbirdmusic. Appreciate..-Kel

Re: No royalties attached??

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:13 pm
by fullbirdmusic
No sweat - good luck!