Vi's & FX libraries for production music?

[Kolstad]

I'm looking to upgrade my setup with some go to vi's, and looking at alternatives to the East West stuff. I don't have too much time to tweak, so the Vienna and Kirk Hunter offers are also out for me. The targeted stuff I'll be doing will mostly be the big in-your-face stuff for trailers and specific listings, I think.

Have any of you tried the MOTU products?.. how do they add up to the competition?

The new one coming out is Ethno 2 http://emusician.com/ms/namm/video/namm ... tu_ethno2/

I won't consider stuff like GPO4 or Miroslav as go-to, but I do look for some decent strings.. http://www.bigfishaudio.com/4DCGI/detai ... 66::512115 I won't consider v1, but if they come out with a v2.. maybe? Any MOTU users in here?

Im still just researching, and might consider saving up for big ones like LASS, and Symphobia, if nothing else works. It's not just a money issue though, also computer specs and considerations on longevity.

Just wondered how the low end stuff (that is not EW, Vienna and Kirk Hunter) adds up in the competition for forwards to library placements? I might want to check those out first, before making the big investments (I have strings in Kontakt 2-3-4, and some stock strings in Live from SoniVox).

Also wonering what you are using for effects?

I've been looking at the Übershall libraries Score FX, and Score FX II
http://www.ueberschall.com/en/products/ ... fx_ii.html

Anybody tried these?
Are they in the same league as the stuff from SampleLogic, like Morphestra, AIR, Elements or Heavyocity?

Just courious..

[mazz]

I don't understand your statement about not having time to tweak, which cuts out Vienna or Kirk Hunter. With any library, you'll be tweaking. Most top libraries sound great out of the box one note at at time, it's when you are turning those samples into phrases that the tweaking comes in. All of the libraries you mention have tons of articulations that you have to play and learn so you can get the most out of them. Kirk Hunter has some excellent scripting in their TVEC instruments which make them very playable, but you still need to learn how to play the legatos correctly and which keyswitches trigger which articulations and on and on.

I don't think that MOTU or Miroslav alone would give you what you will need, particularly when you say you are going to do big in your face trailer stuff. I think you'll need one of the biggie libraries to do this. It's possible to do it with one library such as EW Gold, many folks do, but I don't know anyone who is doing what you want to do with any of the lower tier libraries.

Symphobia is pretty awesome and it does the big bombastic thing well but I would consider it an adjunct to a full orchestra library. LASS does strings only so you'd need some brass and woodwinds too.

As far as effects go, the Uberschall Score FX is pretty cool but you'd want more of those sounds as well. I'd recommend Evolve, Morphestra and some libraries from NI Kore Player. For big percussion, Stormdrum is very good and Cinesamples and Tonehammer also have very nice big drum libraries.

No matter which direction you go, you are going to have a learning curve with these libraries, particularly the orchestra libraries. It takes some time to get up to speed with them and your results will be directly related to how much time you put in up front.

HTH,

Mazz

[Kolstad]

Thanks a lot, John.

Yes, I was hoping to work in Kontakt or Kore 2, which I know well and can play with my MIDI guitar, and it looks like the East West products are not very compatible with those. I can do basic stuff on keys, but I wouldn't be competitive if I can't play my guitars.

Evolve looks really great. I wonder how the two NI packs compares to the original? It's probably more value for money to get the full product.

With 'tweaking' I mean getting the full produced Hollywood sound all by myself. I'll have a hard time producing reverb tails and getting the big room sounds of those more processed libraries on my own (and would have the extra expence of a great convolution reverb like Altiverb). I still have the VSL strings in Kontakt and the SoniVox strings in Live, witch are all dry, besides nice strings for layering in my outboard synth. So I need a processed, sort of polished, go-to library.

I guess Evolve (maybe Morphestra), True Strike, Symphobia and or LASS would be the target stuff for me to get. Can't afford Symphobia and LASS this season, though. We all have to start somewhere.

[mazz]

Altiverb is pretty awesome, although there are other convolution verbs that sound excellent as well. Since I got Altiverb, I use the Todd AO scoring stage quite a bit and it really gives that big Hollywood sound.

You're correct that East West doesn't use Kontakt anymore, they use their own engine called "Play". In my experience, it works fine. It's not the greatest interface, IMO, but it gets the job done.

The smaller Evolve libraries are very good and could work by themselves well.

I don't have True Strike but I just recently picked up Symphobia and have been using SAM Orchestral Brass for quite some time very successfully. Both of those libraries are awesome.

One of the things I'm working hard on, and which I think is a key to my sound, is combining several libraries. I'll use a solo horn from Westgate doubled with a solo horn from SAM and section horns from Kirk Hunter and East West, for instance. It really makes a great sound that doesn't have that "fingerprint" that one gets with using EW exclusively. Not that it's a bad thing to have that EW fingerprint, I just like to push forward with new sounds.

You might consider Stylus and Omnisphere in your shopping wish list. Both of those are staples.

Cheers!

Mazz

[Kolstad]

Yes, the combining of libraries is exactly why I want to work in Kore. Kore allows you to import patches from any Vi, not just NI's, and mix and morph them to your likings. So I plan to try that out with orchestral and FX elements to see if I can get a good workflow going.

I have Atmosphere, and consider upgrading to Omni. Have a lot of the Ni stuff too, though, so I take it ez. Stylus is on my list, allthough I'll still try to make the most of Superior Dr, to which I've recently upgraded. I also have a lot of electronic kit's and options in Live, but haven't found them the perfect match to what I do, and I hear Stylus all the time in movies and on TV, so I guess that's the way to go for a 'go-to' Vi. Stylus will also be useful for additional drum layers in all kinds of music, it looks like.

This particular kind of work will still just be 10-20% of my output, so I try to invest in it according to that. But I still need great tools.

[fullbirdmusic]

Very good answers from mazz here, but I wanted to add that combining libraries is almost a must if you're going the budget route. It's also somewhat self-defeating but it's true that having one go-to library is essential. I use Symphobia - it's huge sounding and almost too much so. I combine it with the stock string sounds in Kontakt. It really helps thicken up the sound and give it some realism.
I find Symphobia sometimes a bit picky in which samples it plays at specific velocities. Some just don't sound good. It really takes some tweak time. Actually any library will.
Evolve is great - I'm not finding myself using it as much as I thought, but I like it. WIVI Brass is an absolute essential but damn expensive.
There are plenty of tools out there and everyone here has used them all. You've come to the right place. Good luck!

[crs7string]

Magne,

The upgrade path from Atmosphere to Omnisphere is only around $180 (US)

This upgrade alone will expand your palette immensely and will keep you busy enough that time will pass and you'll look up and have saved enough money to buy some of the other stuff.

Chuck

[Kolstad]

Thanks, Wes!

Yes, it's so cool to be able to draw upon the experiences of you who have threaded this paths before. That's the real coolness factor of these forums. It's a wonderful place for musicians!

I might stay with the strings I have for now, and save up for LASS. Better to get one useful than 5 which is not IMO.

The WIWI brass looks great! How does that a/b with libraries such as Cinesamples' HollywoodWinds and ProjectSAM's Orchestral brass classic, in terms of realism and usefulness?

Chuck,
Yes, I plan to take the plunge to Omnisphere (if it's still around by then ) when I upgrade mu computer in a year or two. Untill then I'm almost just fooling around with the Vi's and don't expect too many forwards. I guess you never can, but still hoping my make great music, though.

[fullbirdmusic]

No problemo! WIVI Brass - I'm not sure how it compares to the ProjectSam stuff because I only have Symphobia, which I think includes only a portion of the Orch Brass library from them. WIVI is not samples, they're modeled, so it is a HUGE relief on the CPU and RAM. But they make up for those savings in the price. When I bought WIVI Brass I, it was $500, I think. They upgraded the player and added some instruments, so I think it's more than that now. But you can do so much with it, it's worth it. BUT, I still find that I need some more powerful extras to supplement the WIVI stuff. I use Symphobia for that. They are HUGE.

Actually, I have a good track on my Taxi page that uses WIVI, Symphobia, and even some of the stock Kontakt brass which is pretty damn powerful. Give it a listen if you're so inclined - it's called Epic Storm - http://www.taxi.com/fullbirdmusic

I'm probably still also going to get the ProjectSam orchestral brass pack at some point too - I have GAS - Gear Acquisition Syndrome!

[Kolstad]

Epic Storm - http://www.taxi.com/fullbirdmusic

KILLER track, Wes. I have been listening to your stuff in the peer to peer section, and have found it very inspiring.

I have GAS - Gear Acquisition Syndrome!

Me too. It IS a bad habit. I've just been selling out old stuff from my home set-up, and upgraded quite a few things, using the eastern holidays to install and reconfigure..

Thanks a bunch, everyone! I think I have the foot on the big players in the Vi arena now, allthough the minor eclectic gem's are still hard to find.