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Dear Taxi Forum Members:We frequently record tunes with extended baritone saxophone solos. However, bari sax is by nature a rather clunky instrument; even a well-padded, well-lubricated bari emits clunks and groans when played, and, of course, all of these spurious sounds are nicely captured by my Audio Technica AT2020 condenser microphone.At present, we deal with this problem by selective application of EQ with only our ears to guide us. Whereas selective EQ can reduce or, in some cases, even eliminate the unwanted mechanical sounds, the resulting alteration of the waveform also affects the sound quality of the instrument, almost always in an undesirable fashion. The situation is somewhat akin to scanning a fuzzy image; the scanned image can never be sharper than the original. Accordingly, I believe that application of EQ should be a LAST resort - not a starting point for improving performance quality.Can any Forum participants suggest recording procedures, mic placement techniques, wave processing methods, etc. that might help us to preserve the sound quality of the instrument while at the same time minimizing or eliminating distractions due to simple mechanical noise?Thanks in advance for your help/suggestions.-Alan (backtalkunlimited)

Alan,As a listener, I actually like to hear the instrument as it sounds, "warts" and all. Cosmetic surgery is almost always unattractive to me when it results in an unnatural result.But if the noises are as loud as the instrument itself, you might be recording the instrument too closely. What about pulling the mic back a bit so those sounds blend in with the tone of the sax? No one I know ever listened to a Bari sax from 6 inches away. Of course, then the room comes in to play. If your room sounds bad, then you might have to live with EQ'ing the noises out. If you can treat the room so the reflections are somewhat tamed, you can probably record the sax from 3 feet back at least and get a much better balance between the naturally occurring noises and the tone of the instrument.Good luck!!Mazz

Thanks Mazz - but, I gotta tell ya, been that, done there.I've tried pulling back from the mic and also moving off-center, i. e., toward the edge of the mic's active recording "pattern", but the mechanical noises persist. Although they're not as loud as the instrument (thank goodness!), they still provide an unwelcome distraction.Next step will be to try to minimize reflections. Of course, this might mean that I'll hafta turn my studio into a padded cell...whatever it takes!Thanks again, Mazz.Alan

Hey Alan,What mic are you using. It might possibly be to do with choice of mic?Classic large-diaphragm condensers such as the Neumann U87 or AKG C414 (i know they cost:)with pads switched in and placed within half a metre of the bell. Dynamic mics are sometimes a good choice. Ribbons are also fab. The Coles 4038 and AEA R44 are favourites, but need to placed no closer than a metre and a pop shield is must.Some enigineers actually mic tenor + baris very close to the upturned bell. Definitely lose the sound of the room but it has in some cases almost become the expected sound.Darren

REPLY TO DARREN: I routinely use the following mics:My first choice is Audio Technica AT2020 and AT2021, both of which are condenser mics. For vocals, I sometimes like to use a dynamic mic: ElectroVoice N/D767a. In all cases, a pop shield is in place.In fact, your note reminds me that I haven't yet tried to use the dynamic mic to record bari sax. Perhaps this should be my next step...just before I surround the walls, ceiling, and floor of my studio with Sealy PosturePedics.Thanks for your suggestion, Darren - I'll let you know how it works out.-Alan (backtalkunlimited)

Alan,I picked up one of these http://www.cascademicrophones.com/casca ... 0HEAD.html to record trumpet and it sounded really nice, and it's very inexpensive, considering how good it sounds. It's no Coles or Royer but it might be worth checking out. At the very least it would give you another color in microphones. Ribbons typically need a lot of gain but the bari is pretty loud so it probably wouldn't be that big of an issue.Take care,Mazz

As mazz said, I kinda like to hear a bit of the keys on the recording... I haven't recorded a "real" bari in years but when I did, I got pretty good results with my trusty old sm 57 about 3-4 inches from the bell. If the room sounds really good, an EV RE-20 a little farther back also did the trick for me. What kind of noise is it? Are you hearing creaking or the tapping of the fingers on the key?

I would use a Sennheiser MD-421, an Electro-Voice RE-20 or any other large diaphragm dynamic before I'd try a condenser of any kind on Bari. This is one of those situations where less sensitivity is key to not hearing the, you know, keys. Barring the above, an AKG D-112 or any brand of kick drum mic will get you there. Several dynamic mics designed for broadcast will also fit the bill.

Let's seeee...lotsa helpful comments. Quick replies follow:1. Mazz: Since I don't already have a ribbon mic, I plan to check out Cascade's Fat Head. Besides, the name kinda fits my personality. Thank you for your suggestion. PS: Russ Long gave Fat Head an emphatic thumbs-up (ProAudio, review written 9-15-2007)2. Antonio: The source of the distractions appears to be threefold: (i) fingers on keys (minimal problem), (ii) keypads slapping closed, and (iii) keypads opening up again, at which point the back of the key hits the stop. Noises include slaps, clicks, and thumps. No creaking or squeaks.One would think one was listening to a musical wrestling match. If I could manage to make these sounds fit the rhythm of the music, perhaps I could pass them off as "percussion".Pads are in good shape, keystops are cushioned, but noises abound. I have placed band-aids at strategic points on the instrument to further cushion keystop slaps; nevertheless, this is a heck of a way to do business.By the bye: It seems to me that the only way to record bari sax is LIVE. Among those that advertise themselves as "baritone saxophone", every such sound font or sample that I've heard comes closer to imitating a comb kazoo than a bari sax. Go figure.With regard to sound quality: When all else fails, there's always the instrument!Mojobone: This brings us back to dynamic mics. As I indicated earlier, I've used my ElectroVoice N/D 767A dynamic mic on vocals but never on a live instrument. "The time has come, the walrus said..."Thanks again to all.-Alan (backtalkunlimited)

Thought I'd pass this on:While surfing the web this morning, I managed to locate the following document: http://www.itrstudio.com/MIC_CHAT.PDF. This is an 84 page document in which several experienced panelists share their knowledge of microphone theory, recording/microphone placement techniques, and related topics.The following is a quotation from that document that is pertinent to the present thread:"Horns, what mics and polar patterns to useMost horns put out a lot of energy, so close miking is not a good idea. About 18" away is a good starting place. Start at the bell level and work your way up to pick up more breathtones and output from the keys, in the case of saxophones. Generally, you can use a large diaphragm dynamic, a ribbon, or a large diaphragm condenser mic with pretty good results. The Sennheiser 421 is a great choice for a dynamic, almost any kind of ribbon, or a !" condenser mic. Cardioid is usually the pattern of choice."Sounds very much like what you folks have been saying in your responses, above.Cheers.-Alan (backtalkunlimited)