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I listened faithfully to all seven TAXI-sponsored Matt Hirt episodes. One feature that he did not discuss, a problem that has proved to be the bane of my existence, involves sound-quality of production music. Our music is produced electronically (Roland FantomX7 synthesizer/workstation) and is supplemented with live instrument performances. When I write to production music library companies and lead them to our website for audition purposes, they invariably respond as follows: "We like your musicianship, we like your arrangements, the music is excellent. However, we don't do midi music. We want only live (acoustic) instruments, and we will reject anything that sounds 'too electronic' regardless of the quality of musicianship." One company representative put it another way: "We purchase purely electronic music and purely instrumental music, but nothing in between". Now, we're not supplying "midi music" (this must be a put-down, of sorts) - we produce high-quality WAV and MP3 (192-320 kbps) files. But, I will readily admit that the synthesizer-produced sounds ultimately draw their sound-quality from my computer's sound fonts. Is this an industry-wide phenomenon, or is there hope for those of us who produce music electronically? Is there a super set of sound fonts available, or must one resort to endless sampling with samples stored in multi-terabyte-capacity hard drives? The mind boggles.Comments, advice, will be greatly appreciated - Really, I'm at my wits' end.

your name, might imply that a lengthy, argumentative response could be expected from you. That's not really what you mean to say is it?Quote:I listened faithfully to all seven TAXI-sponsored Matt Hirt episodes. One feature that he did not discuss, a problem that has proved to be the bane of my existence, involves sound-quality of production music. But, I will readily admit that the synthesizer-produced sounds ultimately draw their sound-quality from my computer's sound fonts.Comments, advice, will be greatly appreciated - Really, I'm at my wits' end.Matt is awesome, isn't he. You'll hear him talk about production values. I bet every one of us on this forum have bookmarked something "Matto" has written here. I didn't see where we can listen to your stuff?I've been a traditional, rootsy keyboard player for 35 years or so. I've learned integrate many "Roots"sound simulations from my gear, into live shows. I have good live gear, but my studio computer's sample libraries are not huge, so neither is the sound of my recordings. Most of the recordings I do are one-man shows. I hope that changes soon... So to a degree, we're in the same predicament. There's a lot to learn, and there's a lot you have to spend. These music libraries have an expectation that the sounds used in the recordings they offer to their clients, will be better/more appropriate than another source. And why shouldn't they? Fine with me. It all just helps me keep my head in the game. It's about learning, I think. Everyone is generally, doing their best creative work, snd more efficiently than ever. Therefore the quality, and competition keeps going up. But there remains a monstrous market (IMHO), because there is an ample supply of tv amd film opportunities. chug-a-chug-a-chingjump on board, the sample train's a runnin' . or...maybe there's an industry conspiracy, between the creators of these awesome sampledlibraries(like EastWest), and the music libraries... yeah, that's it

Quote: Now, we're not supplying "midi music" (this must be a put-down, of sorts) - we produce high-quality WAV and MP3 (192-320 kbps) files. But, I will readily admit that the synthesizer-produced sounds ultimately draw their sound-quality from my computer's sound fonts.what the representative meant was: it SOUNDS like midi - midi data itself has no sounds, its just commands. what you mean: you record the audio-output of your synthesizer as audiofile.the problem: your audio-file sounds like it's done via midi. and that should not be the case - the listener should not "detect" that your sounds are done via midi and not "real" instruments.almost all my drums are programmed - but hardly ever somebody recongnize it, even good drummers. and I have licensed such songs to diffrent companies.simple answer: the companies don't care how you do what's in your production - it simply needs to sounds great and "real". if it's _really_ "real acoustic" or not doesn't matter then - it just need to sound as it was;)cheers,martin

I understand your frustration. It can be difficult (and expensive) to make your music sound as if it was all performed by live players. Many times the quality of the sample library AND how it's used can make a big difference in how the music is perceived by the listener.Without being able to hear some of the music that was passed on, it's difficult to fully know what aspects of your production they were referring to.Off the top of my head, some of the things that can cry out MIDI are: the same drum loop over and over, the same bass line over and over, the same guitar/piano/keyboard loop over and over, too tightly quantized parts of any kind, lack of expressive phrasing. I'm not saying your music has this but these are pretty common issues with overly MIDI-fied music.I'm not referring to dance music or some forms of electronica because the aesthetic in those styles sometimes calls for exactly the things I mentioned above.Let us hear some of your music. There's some folks on here that would probably be glad to give some constructive feedback if you're open to it.Mazz

backtalk,I'm glad you enjoyed the videos, I'm gonna compile a list of questions not covered there, in case we decide to do a "part 2" of the series. I would guess that at least 80% of all production music is produced in the way you describe your own productions: midi-based with a smattering of live instrumentation where applicable. Certainly all of my music is produced this way.But Martin (gitarrero) hit the nail on the head with his post: you shouldn't be able to tell that it's not all live. Without hearing your tracks it's hard for me to say why yours come across as "midi sounding"... but generally speaking I'd say soundfonts are not gonna cut it sound wise. That doesn't mean you need "terabytes" worth of samples, but you'll need a quality soft sampler with a decent size library and/or a few high quality virtual instruments. How much exactly you'll need depends on the stylistic scope of your music.And please remember that compared to your Fantom X7, these sample libraries and virtual instruments are rather affordable...you could buy A LOT of libraries/VI's/hard disk space for $2500!matto

Wow! I received an almost-same-day response from the Doctor Himself! What more could one ask?Well, I've been kinda shy about posting a URL on a message board. On one hand, whether or not it comes naturally, self-promotion seems to be the Name of this Game. But, on the other hand, a human being has only four cheeks to turn, and as a composer/arranger I've had all four of mine reddened at one time or another. However, it's abundantly clear to me that the only way up-and-out is to invite constructive criticism and to take it to heart (mine is resting on my sleeve at the moment). So, here goes:The URL that I have provided to several production music libraries is:http://thorpe.bravehost.com. There, you will find 11 full-length samples of our arrangements as mp3 files. I've also included a YouTube morph-movie with music background, which only serves to emphasize the fact that, clearly, I have WAY too much free time on my hands at present!If you have time-and-patience, you might also listen to some freebies that I posted on CNET's Download.com at the following URL:http://music.download.com/alanmarchand/ ... rtistThere. I've done it. Have your way with me.....and many, many thanks to the kind folks - - steve a-gilbert, mazz, gitarrero, and, of course, matto - - who responded so rapidly and have offered the benefit of their experience. I'm truly grateful.

Having listened to a few of your samples, you DEFINITELY need a sound upgrade. While your compositions are easily good enough for production libraries, better production is vital. There is no other way to put it. Investing in about $1000 worth of samples will go a LONG way. For example, EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Silver + Silver XP Pro runs $195 but will vastly improve your orchestral sounds (hardware workstations and samplers are notoriously inferior in that department). In terms of keyboards - like EPs, organs, clavinets, and even grand pianos - your Fantom will probably be fine. For drums, consider Addictive Drums"or DFH Superior, each of which are in the $200-300 range, if I recall. And so on and so forth.But samples are only 1/2 the battle. Learning to realistic play and sequence MIDI is another story. For example, you can't just write in a violin part and expect it to sound good, even on the best samples. You need to choose the proper articulation - or use multiple articulations, such as marcato, tremolo, sustain (vibrato vs. non vibrato) - edit velocites, alter timing, mix and blend with other strings, edit attack/release envelopes, apply postprocessing... the list is extensive. It depends on how realistic you want to get. Some libraries make this process easier than others.Here are a few examples of my own music, which relies heavily on samples. The following clips are 100% from software libraries (minus example2 which has a bit of real vox). I get forwarded pretty regularly and have had a few dozen music library placements outside of Taxi.http://www.soundtempest.net/example1.mp ... ample3.mp3 (synth lead is a bit out of place as its a placeholder for vocals)http://www.soundtempest.net/example4.mp3 (multisamples, no loops)

Its really nice jazzy and original melodic feels.... but I can see where the midi vs live dilemma comes in.... I guess my ears were a little jaded to listen for the midi sound vs the live sound, and I do hear a problem where one second sounds live then then next second you pick up a little bit of that electronic whistle that clues you into it being a sampled instrument.... also, there is a rigid kind of programmed feel to the rhythm track as a whole.... Like everyone else, I'm still learning, and my tracks have a long way to go.... the aspect that I have been trying to overcome is to not rely so much on quantizing..... I still over quantize the lines in my drum parts, and especially my key parts because I am not a drummer or keyboard player.... I figure the performance will sound more 'in the groove" if I let the machines quantize.... but what winds up happening is getting the groove too stiff.... I have been trying to change my discipline by playing more expressively without the quantizing and forcing myself to accept having to do a lot of punching to make the part both right and retain a live feel..... ArkJack

backtalk,You're trying to do pretty much the hardest thing with MIDI next to Orchestral, which is jazz. You have a lot of good ideas melodically and harmonically. I can see what the library companies were saying about the pieces sounding MIDI, though. The thing I've found the most difficult to produce when doing jazz is the drums. There's just not that many jazz drum loop libraries out there although there are some MIDI loops available for EZ drummer that are approaching usability. One library that I found at Sonomic.com was the Living Drums library featuring Peter Erskine. It takes some work mixing and matching the loops and as it's an older library, unless you can edit the loops with something like Recycle, you are stuck with the tempos they give you. Its still a great library, though. It's the closest I'll probably ever get to having Peter Erskine play on my stuff!Here's a jazz ballad that I composed this year. The drums took quite a bit of time to put together but they're all loops from another library called Jazzistic which I'm pretty sure is out of print. I added a few cymbal splashes here and there from another library. The bass is from the Kontakt 2 library and the piano is a sampled Bosendorfer 290 from East West. No quantizing of any kind was used on this particular track. I use quantizing all the time but not when I'm doing jazz! I may have moved a note here or there but no grids were employed!! http://www.broadjam.com/transmit/transm ... 1Hopefully everyone's examples and suggestions will help you upgrade your sound. Your music is very good, it just needs updated production.Good luck,Mazz

Well, it seems to be pretty much unanimous - I definitely need a sound upgrade. General Midi doesn't seem to carry the day, does it?I welcome any and all suggestions regarding specific samples - f'rinstance, zircon kindly mentioned EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Silver + Silver XP Pro, Addictive Drums, and DFH Superior, while Mazz mentioned the Kontakt2 library and a sampled Boesendorfer piano. I've read about commercially available samples both on various web blogs and by reading the blurbs in my Sweetwater catalog. The problem is trying to figure out which are best in the context of my music (and in the context of my wallet). I'll now start to look into 'em SERIOUSLY. By the bye: The most satisfying aspect of Roland X7 is that I can perform and record live individual tracks. Since my rhythms are somewhat less-than-perfect, this provides a "humanizing" quality to the music that is hard to come by when simply plugging notes into music composition software. As for my software, I have limited facility with SONAR6 - it's not exactly user-friendly, and there are only so many hours in a day... So, I kinda get by with several less complicated programs that lack the flexibility of a real DAW but allow me to maintain some sanity.I'll readily admit that I've spent the bulk of my time and effort working on musicianship - I have no formal training in production - - it's all been seat-of-the-pants. As a result, I'm truly grateful for your comments and suggestions that relate to production. Please be assured that I will be highly receptive to suggestions regarding specific commercial samples that lend themselves toward the kind of music that you heard on our website.And, if there's something that I might be able to do for YOU, please don't be afraid to ask.Thanks again, folks.-Alan