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Song writing - the truth hurts no!?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:33 am
by linziellen
Hi all,I was wondering...at what point when writing lyrics do you say "this is too close to the truth" I mean can you really poor it all out onto paper and risk hurting someone from your past or in your life at present. A lot of my music is pretty general and would have to be picked and pulled apart to really get to the bone but some of it is so obvious (at least it would be for the person concerned). Have you guys ever written about somebody who realised your song was about them!? What did you do?Bizarre question maybe but stranger things must happen!Thanks for any comments.Lindsey.

Re: Song writing - the truth hurts no!?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:20 am
by jchitty
You ask the most interesting questions. Since I write country music and story type songs, I can get away with a lot. In other words, I can tell a story with characters, but I have the luxury of 'disguising' those characters if I want. It's equivalent to writing a little novel. You can change the names and even the sex of your character, but you can still weave in elements of truth. Many times if an author pens a story, their struggles and experiences are all woven into the story, but it comes out in a different way....same thing with songwriting, I guess. So I've never had anyone realize that my song was about them because I like to tell my stories in a roundabout way. Carly Simon wrote a very clever song 'to keep them wondering' with "You're So Vain." For years, the public always wondered who the person behind 'I bet you think this song is about you' was. No one still knows except the person who purchased the very expensive secret off Ebay.

Re: Song writing - the truth hurts no!?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:07 am
by ncc1701
I like to write from a title or a chorus idea, and I'll generally think to myself, "What is the singer trying to say?" and put myself in "their" shoes to write the rest of the song. When I came across the title suggestion of "Ain't Gettin' Any," I used a couple of recognizable elements from my personal life, such as:For twenty-seven nights, I left on the lightsSo you wouldn't have to find your way in the darkNow I don't want to fight, but do you think it's rightTo let me wait alone and wide awake and you areLying out there on the sofa, you're drooling on the pillows and youDon't think it matters that IAin't gettin' anySo this was an actual issue between my husband and me for a while. But then the song went on:How could we go so wrong?We grew up, we grew out, we grew tired of the same old boring one-note songIs this the way it ends?An inferno cools off into ashes to remind us that we're just good friendsWhich was totally NOT the issue - I never felt this way, and it was fiction I made up for the sake of the song.But it did take a bit of convincing to get him to believe that. I wrote another song off the title "I Am Tempted," about starting a relationship with someone the singer was close to but had never considered romantically before. I based some of the details on an incident where my former songwriting partner (female) had once made a proposition to me (also female). I politely declined her offer and we're still friends, but I wrote the song about being tempted to take her up on it. Which I wasn't, but it made for a much better song!So I guess my contribution to the conversation is: Write what you want to say, write whatever the song demands. Nobody can tell you whether you're wrong or right for writing it - just don't be telling listeners to go kill cops or something. I've heard that gets you in trouble. Kathleen

Re: Song writing - the truth hurts no!?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:17 am
by squids
Quote: Carly Simon wrote a very clever song 'to keep them wondering' with "You're So Vain." For years, the public always wondered who the person behind 'I bet you think this song is about you' was. No one still knows except the person who purchased the very expensive secret off Ebay. I think everyone thought it was Warren Beatty. Wouldn't surprise me. This IS an interesting thread. I use my marriage as fodder for writing but it's not accurate......I'll bend and shift reality to suit what works, not what's real. Have I been caught telling one side of the truth about someone? Oh yeah. What did I do? Tried to explain it (see above). There were lots of "hmmmphs" and "uh HUH"s without much resolution. I'm pretty sure only writers would understand this explanation. It happened to me recently......a friend (whom I dated years and years ago, long before I was married) sent me a song the other day......it's a given that he still has, uh, some feelings regarding our relationship (friendship!!). Wonderful guy, really sweet (love him!) but kinda touchy about this subject. So anyway, he sends me this tune and it was titled, "Out Of All Your Lies, I Love You Was My Favorite". Uh. I responded by asking him who he was talking about, me or this other girl he almost married. He promptly responded by telling me it was her. Phew. Cuz I don't know exactly how I'd feel, especially since it was an instrumental......

Re: Song writing - the truth hurts no!?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:20 am
by arkjack
Chits... You're So Vain was about Warren Beatty, who Carly Simon was either married to at one point or at least engaged in the pre-James Taylor days. I'll say I always have someone in mind when I'm writing a song, whether I'm directly involved in a relationship about the story, or just looking at it from an outsider POV, or a POV where I empathize with the subjects and write from their perspective. (Yeah..... that statement made a lot of sense).... Anyway, I never had anyone call me on it saying .... wait...is that song about me?ArkJack

Re: Song writing - the truth hurts no!?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:48 am
by jchitty
Hmmm, Squiddy and Arkjack, Warren Beatty, eh? I knew there was speculation that it was either Beatty or Mick Jagger. There was a story in the press several years back where a wealthy buyer went on E-bay to find out who it was because Carly Simon auctioned off the name, but the buyer was supposed to be sworn to secrecy....guess it leaked out in the press.I can see why that song was about Warren......Mr. Narcissistic Peter Pan in his day. He was a cutie though.

Re: Song writing - the truth hurts no!?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:16 am
by hummingbird
This is a good question, Lindsay. I think most songs start from a place of personal experience in some way. However I think the key is to be able to express that personal experience in a universal way. So the words/images may be more universally relatable, but you, when you sing it, see your own image/story... as the listener sees theirs. In a very real way, we should re-write music/lyrics to express the story of the listener.So, for example, I may have difficulty relating to my mother & I write a lyric about that. My next job is to see that from the listeners' point of view. How can I express their relationships with their mothers/parents/etc. Try writing the lyric from various points of view (2nd person, 3rd person) to get the "me" of the singer out of the way. You may, after going through the process of re-writing, end up back in first person because that it works best for the song. But the "I" in the final lyric is the listener's "I".... if that makes senseIMOHTHH'Bird

Re: Song writing - the truth hurts no!?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:53 pm
by telaak
great question.. I had a situation about 3 years ago where one of my employees {I used to own a cafe} and I had a "plutonic" {sp?} but very close relationship..I was early 40's..she early 20's..it was a SERIOUS crush on both sides but I knew it would mess her up if it happened..probably would have messed me up as well..So I didn't let it happen..a real tough situation...anyway, I wrote this song about it and posted it online..another one of my waitresses {a musician/writer} saw it on my site and told me she really dug the song..she then asked "do I know this person ?" and I had to come clean..and told her ya..it's Rachelthe girl who asked me about it was a bit older and on the creative side..she felt it was a great song and I should tell Rachel about it..@ this point the relationship turned into a mentor/proteg'e thing..but every once in a while it slid back into the crush thing..So..having always had the rep as a really honest songwriter..I told her about it..and gave her a copy of the raw demo..I was in the studio @ the time recording an ep with that song on it..in the meantime she was moving to washington for her last 2 years of college..so I sent her the finished record..which she liked a lot..it said all the things I couldn't..and i'm sure explained why I held back..we still email from time to time..we made a loose deal that if we were both single in 10 years we'd give it a shot..i'd be about 52..she'd be 32...here's the song..http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... ater..john

Re: Song writing - the truth hurts no!?

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:47 am
by dcandco
It's cool to write about something or some one in particular, if it could be anyone Else's someone when they listen to it. As long as your audience can relate. You shouldn't consider your local audience, if you're shooting for the stars. I've written some songs, about experiences with certain people. But I've been in relationships with people that try to take credit or offense with the context of new songs and ... That didn't make for a very long relationship.Dave

Re: Song writing - the truth hurts no!?

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:26 am
by arkjack
I thought about it a little more, and found I also write a bit of fantasy. I have a song about being a truck driver, never drove a stick in my life, let alone a rig. I have a song about riding Harleys, but I wouldn't know the first thing about how to kick the starter on a bike. I have a song about breaking the law and getting busted, but I've been clean cut. Maybe thats why Taxi keeps returning my material??/ I otherwise have a pretty boring life, except for the fishing, which is hard to write about in a way the masses can relate to.ArkJack