TAXI.com

Could you pls advise?

In this case, do you think it is advisable to give songwriting credits to a person who helps produce your songs?

A friend and I have been working to write songs together (lyrics and melody). However, we feel that pitching our songs would be easier if the songs can be arranged and produced better, rather than being performed with a guitar or piano only.

One option would be to pay for an arranger/producer to do this. But the cost can vary.

Is it better to find someone who is willing to do this for free in exchange for the songwriting credits?

Of course, another related question would be whether any arranger/producer is interested in this arrangement with unknown songs.

Thank you

Being that music is indeed a business, certainly that could be a viable business solution for you.

Everything is negotiable. It could be a great solution if all parties find benefits. Many songwriting partnerships consist of producers and songwriters or artists... Each contributing commercial appeal and intelectual property rights within their strengths.

Here are a few things you may want to consider:
1. Sign contracts! Make sure you bind any agreement legally and specifically... Determine what percentages will go to whom and who will own the masters in exchange for what services
2. How good are the songs? If the songs are great then you may want to just fork over upfront fees to keep all future income
But if you're not sure if the songs will make much money then it may be better to eliminate upfront production costs

Most producers though are used to getting paid upfront a set fee... And for a good producer to work in exchange for future royalties or percentages, the song would need to be amazing!

My advice is to be careful & selective in your search. And don't partner with anyone until you develop a good working relationship with them. But also, don't be afraid to spend money investing in your production either.

Good luck!
Fuller

Thank you so much for your kind advice.

learning the hard way,
I am an emerging record producer songwriter, I ran a songwriter's night featuring up to 18 song writers. I did 200 shows over three years, and during that period I saw a lot of different song writers.

I built up my studio over the years as well is all my music playing skills. And I saw some really good original talent. On three occasions recorded and produced entire albums for three songwriters, where I built whole arrangements around their basic guitar vocal songs, it was a considerable effort of love and I wanted to see these people have something real manifested , so that they could then go out and trade, find opportunities. It didn't pan out that nice for me. Given that I wrote all the music supporting the songs, including musical hooks, drum bass guitar and keyboard, backing vocals.
by law I am not allowed to claim any ownership, seeing as whoever wrote the lyrics and the music, as the copyright owner. My point being that somebody can come to you with a recipe for a cake and some ingredients, but when you use all your resources to actually create the thing and finish it, you are still not allowed any rights in the finished product. Unless you make some previous agreement.

now I get sneered at for mentioning my considerable input.
People frowned on me , if I was to expect some part ownership in the songs. In each case I was certainly the superior musician, composer arranger, and these people have benefited greatly from my input. I didn't ask them for any money. that's what you get for working with amateurs.

and matter of fact, the songs would not exist even now, if I hadn't offered to help these people out.

The tragedy is that even now, 10 years later, these people have done virtually nothing with the gift. One of them turns out to be extremely lazy and indolent, another one half psychotic on drug use, and the other one hopeless and apathetic case. and then these people turn around and bite the hand fed them, Much is the pity because the songs were really really good. at least what I made of them.

since then I turned all my writing and composing skills to finishing my own albums and building a future for my own creative efforts. and that's how it goes sometimes.

It is possible to look at a producer/arranger as a collaborator and negotiate a share of songwriting (and sync) in lieu of up front payment, I and others here have done that before. What I would caution is to be sure that the person you will be collaborating with understands what it is you are aiming for. [[When I started out I went to a local producer and paid a lot of money to get songs produced, but a) those songs were virtually unpitchable as I didn't know what I was doing yet and b) even if they had been, I doubt the arrangements would have worked for the style of music I was writing because, again, I didn't know what I was doing & therefore was unable to ask for what was needed. Buyer beware.]]

If you do pay someone, make sure you get works for hire and that you have full ownership of the Master. If you collaborate, make sure you have decided who will own the master recordings of the song as well as the Words & Music copyright& get that in writing as part of a co-writing agreement which specifies the royalty and sync etc shares belonging to each person.

As a final thought, before spending money on producing any songs use the resources here (Peer to Peer) or TAXI critique service or other trusted resources to find out if the songs have commercial viability.

an apt response for which I thank you.

I can see a modicum of sense in both sides dependent on specific context.If the producer was 'work for hire' and you paid them good $£ for their craft the compulsion is lesser.If however it was a non-hired collab/co-write then a co-write credit seems more justified. It'll also depend on the input the producer had. For example did they add a killer bass line or infectious synth hook to the final mix? A really polished production can elevate a fairly decent and promising song into viable chart hit material.

Excel Music Studio. Did you charge or were you paid by the songwriters which you produced and wrote and recorded arrangements for?

lovefilmmusic wrote:Could you pls advise?

In this case, do you think it is advisable to give songwriting credits to a person who helps produce your songs?

A friend and I have been working to write songs together (lyrics and melody). However, we feel that pitching our songs would be easier if the songs can be arranged and produced better, rather than being performed with a guitar or piano only.

One option would be to pay for an arranger/producer to do this. But the cost can vary.

Is it better to find someone who is willing to do this for free in exchange for the songwriting credits?

Of course, another related question would be whether any arranger/producer is interested in this arrangement with unknown songs.

Thank you

Imagine that you're starving; would you rather have half a loaf of bread, or starve for lack of the whole loaf?

hummingbird wrote:It is possible to look at a producer/arranger as a collaborator and negotiate a share of songwriting (and sync) in lieu of up front payment, I and others here have done that before. What I would caution is to be sure that the person you will be collaborating with understands what it is you are aiming for. [[When I started out I went to a local producer and paid a lot of money to get songs produced, but a) those songs were virtually unpitchable as I didn't know what I was doing yet and b) even if they had been, I doubt the arrangements would have worked for the style of music I was writing because, again, I didn't know what I was doing & therefore was unable to ask for what was needed. Buyer beware.]]

If you do pay someone, make sure you get works for hire and that you have full ownership of the Master. If you collaborate, make sure you have decided who will own the master recordings of the song as well as the Words & Music copyright& get that in writing as part of a co-writing agreement which specifies the royalty and sync etc shares belonging to each person.

As a final thought, before spending money on producing any songs use the resources here (Peer to Peer) or TAXI critique service or other trusted resources to find out if the songs have commercial viability.

Vikki, excellent advice - I would add, when you hire someone (work for hire) and that you own the master, that you actually walk away with that master. Getting it later can be difficult. (yep, personal experience here:-))

Sometimes, you want to keep all the rights, but you need help - if you don't want a true collaboration and don't have funds to pay outright, something to consider is a legally binding agreement where you pay a portion, and then pay a small portion of any funds received. But being clear, honest, and upfront is really important. Good lck.
Lorraine