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I believe there is only one set of words that is perfect for any given melody. What I suggest is full of contradictions and filled with logic problems but makes sense on its own terms. At least I think so. You may disagree, and I would happily agree, which is yet another conundrum about my thought.I believe that a melody is a "found thing". You may arrive at it from a dream, from an idea, from many hours of painstakingly crafting the tones.But I believe there is only ONE, and ONLY one, set of lyrics that is perfect for the melody you have found, created, or extracted.Sometimes it is the first lyrical idea that crosses your mind, but for me, it usually takes much longer.Give yourself (and your subconscious) enough time, turn it over in your head and dreams, take the time to really get to know the melody. Often, for me, the melody sounds like it is already concealing syllables. A sort of musical crossword puzzle, if you will.Eventually, the lyric will appear, sometimes fast, sometimes slow, but it will show up.I never try to force my words onto a melody. I think that does an injustice to my creative spirit and robs the melody of its real potential.You may disagree. You may call me nuts. That's fine.I won't disagree.I will allow that any two people will arrive at different lyrics for any given melody, and that is fine too. It doesn't change my premise, because my perfect melody is not yours.But if they are given the time to grow and you carefully nurture them from a dream or the result of hard work, they will flower completely in your mind.Short them, and they will, in turn, short you.I just finished spending 9 months thinking about lyrics for one song.In the last few days I completed another song in its entirety, start to finish. I dreamed the key, intervals and chords. Slowly it came into focus.I also believe that lyrics grow at their own pace. Some come sooner, others take time.My perfect lyric is not yours, nor should it be. If yours is perfect for you, it is perfect for the melody. And will be honest.I suppose I think that is the most important thing. Honest lyrics, or honest within their scope.Currently, I was reading a lyric about a Christian Murderer on another forum here. What struck me? The lyrics were a bit flawed in small areas (but whose aren't?).More importantly, it was absolute truth within the context of the narrator. It was straight-on, thus opening the author to some criticism. I applaud the efforts of anyone who tells the truth of the melody or song. That truth may not be attractive to everyone, or even to the author. But it IS the truth, within the scope of the idea or song.And that is to be treasured.It really is a gift.Best wishes, and thanks for tolerating me!Leon

I hear you, Steve. I agree completely, even when you started getting all sweet and poetic-like. My sentiments exactly.I'm struggling with my own bias on my own stuff...spent three hours last night remixing "Better Believe"...took out a lot of extraneous sounds that a lot of people mentioned was overkill. After a long resistant while, I finally admitted to myself that I agreed with them. So I performed the surgery, spent a lot of time on it...and came to a good new version. But then I played the first one again, and felt an overwhelming loyalty to it. It has lots of recording errors and sounds that are inferior to the newer one...but I STILL feel torn.I think this is why so many of the great recording artists prefer to work quickly, just lay it down as fresh as can be and move on, no second guessing and no regrets.But, then again, they're great.

At Rancho Mojo, the song gets done any way it can, same as makin' babies. I'm one of those ADD people that are paradoxically easily entertained and easily distracted/bored, I develop a process, abandon it, develop a new one, hybridize the two, amalgamate both the former with a third, whatever.I don't feel that melodies limit lyrics, nor vice versa, for me, the trick is coaxing them into working together to achieve a desired emotional response. Or any emotional response, really. .

Hmmm... very interesting discussion. I don't think there is a right and wrong answer -- just differences in approach. Last night at my kid's high school choir concert they sang Aura Lee -- the song that the melody for Love Me Tender was taken from. It struck me, hearing the original again, how the Love Me Tender lyrics demanded different meter and placement of some of the melody.My process varies, because I find it hard to separate melody from lyric. If I write lyrics first, i usually hear at least some melody or lyric first.... but then I find that lyric may evolve and develop around the final melody. If the music is there first, then I find the melody is influenced and evolves around the lyric, like the Elvis example above.So for my process, right or wrong, the lyric and or melody are not independent of each other. A fixed lyric can limit a melody as well as visa versa. Both have to evolve together to be a song.IMHO that's why many collaborations do not click when there's a lyricist and a composer. The two have to be willing to give ground to become a complete whole.... though the same can happen when there's only one writer. Aub

Sept 23, 2008, 5:41pm, flood wrote:It is fascinating, though, to see people adamantly sticking with their "lyrics first" or "melody first" methods. Flood, you need to re-read this entire thread you've started, if you think people are sticking with their lyric or melody first methods. Every poster on here says they change it up once in a while, except for one. There was only one guy, who said he always does it lyrics first. Everyone else likes changes... No one else was "adamant" unless you count those willing to change... That's something I noticed right away. but it's all good man. the thread is a wealth of knowledge. thanks for starting it.

Perhaps adamant was the wrong word. It seems people have their "go to" method, and it works for them in many cases. That is what I meant, I suppose, though I should refrain from reading and writing immediately before bedtime. It is refreshing to see this from so many different angles.

All good points.I mentioned earlier in the thread (I think), that I have a lyric idea that occurred to me for no particular reason, a couple weeks back. First time, and maybe it was because the idea was on my mind from this thread. If so, that's a blessing. In this case the LYRIC came almost entirely formed, and there was no melody at all. This is unusual for me, and may be a total loss. I have been turning it over in my mind, and stumped. I will paste em here, in case anyone wants to collaborate on it, but I am completely used to starting with melody.I probably have some humble pie to consume with this one, and that's fine, but I can't get this darn lyric concept outta my head, either. And no melody seems willing to join it. I spoke only for my own method, but it seems I spoke out of turn, even for that.Into the station rolls the Midnight LineIt’s a double-decker of tawdry times.We’ll ride the rails on and on.Till the last bell at the edge of dawn.Leave your demons at the door,Come inside, we’ll show you more.Step right up to Conductor Phil.What’s your poison, booze or pills?Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, feels so fine.Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, it’s divine.A cargo of wasted days and wasted lives,See it all through Dante’s eyes.Show me yours and I’ll show you mine,Bare our souls as the rails slide by.Up in the lounge car, they’re throwing bones.With a special fascination for hearts and souls.The devil’s in the details, marking time.He’s tossing cards over booze and lines.Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, feels divine.Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, one more time.Here we see Carly, sipping from her wine.Her fame came and went in eighty-nine.Now meet Joker Joe along the way.He once wrote a song like Lennon in the day.It’s the last ride you’ll ever need.Step inside and take a seat.One for the road, one more pill.One more drink, thank-you Phil.Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, feels divine.Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, one last time.Something macabre and appealing artistically about the idea of a rolling circus of addiction.No personal metaphors intended, and all my addictions are reasonably under control.Three pieces of humble pie please, while I await the golden melody's appearance.

Well, Flood, I needed a break from mixing a 2 zillion part vocal tune tonight, so I took a few moments to record a rough idea of what kind of melody/ riffs/ progressions come to (or through) my brain when reading your lyrics.This is really more the accompaniment/ piano side of it -- the vocals would be a tad different, but I thought it would be fun to post a VERY ROUGH DRAFT !! version of what I hear in your lyrics, at least piano-wise.Here tis:http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... m=trueI'll be curious if other folks here might hear something completely different in your lyrics. Either way, I'm thinking I'll work on developing the song some more. I like it's groove . . . either that, or my version of groovy belongs in the Twilight Zone !!! Suz

Thanks, Cameron! Suz

High Five, Flood-meister! ,Suz