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I just put this together and I'm curious to see what you guys think, specifically how you think the orchestral instruments sound. If you have a minute and wouldn't mind letting me know that would be great!"Midnight"http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... Thanks!Dan

Quote:I just put this together and I'm curious to see what you guys think, specifically how you think the orchestral instruments sound. If you have a minute and wouldn't mind letting me know that would be great!"Midnight"http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... anks!DanHi Dan,Overall I like this and if anyone has listened to film trailer music, sometimes it's nothing but a bunch of bombastic drumming and not really musical. I think you've combined some good bombastic qualities with some good musical qualities. I love the subtle "haywire" electronica blips, blurps and instrumental squeaks that show up in the beginning. Very cool. FWIW in the suggestion department...The orchestral instruments sound fine but like they were recorded very far away. I don't know if there's anything you can do (what orchestral package are you using?) but they sound distant where I think they need to sound really upfront and intense. Same for the drums/percussion.In the opening orchestral section, I'd try moving the bass drone a little... walk it up and/or down, doesn't have to be fast, maybe in whole notes, something to break that up a little and create more interest in the bottom end during that first 0:36 seconds.I'd try to develop a good full orchestral theme (even something similar to the orchestral that you start with) to layer on top of the rock guitar section. Right now it sounds too much like two different tracks... orchestral, then rock. If it starts orchestral and then the rock stuff becomes a support for an even more intense orchestral, it'll have a LOT more power and will be a more logical continuation of what you've started.HTH,Dave

Thanks Dave, I appreciate the insight. To answer your question, I'm using EWQLSO Gold...so that's just the sound of the hall on them. I didn't use any processing, it's just straight up Gold I'll definitely take the compositional tips into consideration! I do have one more question, though: do you generally master your orchestral recordings? My biggest issue right now is not being quite sure how to master those types...I feel like I lose a lot of quality by applying overall compression and limiting, and really like the raw sound of the mix better, but the raw sound also tends to be quite quiet. So, I'd prefer to keep it quieter and of a higher quality, but I'm just not sure what's commercially expected in this area.Thanks again!Dan

Quote:My biggest issue right now is not being quite sure how to master those types...I feel like I lose a lot of quality by applying overall compression and limiting, and really like the raw sound of the mix better, but the raw sound also tends to be quite quiet. I use Gold too but I do run everything through T-Racks which for me is a "Mastering for Dummies" (no offense to knowledgable invididuals who also use T-Racks). Usually pretty gentle but for more bombasic stuff I definitely add a fair amount of compression. I think that since there's no super quiet sections (like light oboe) that you could hammer the overall mix a lot more. You shouldn't lose anything in terms of feeling... I think you'd gain more. I don't think you can compress the drums/percussion too much for this kind of track. I use a setting in one of the Sonar compressors called "Drum Destroyer". It just really brings those bombastic drumming parts out of the speaker.I'd love to see what Hans Zimmer's engineer(s) have done with some of his tracks. I'd bet there's a little compression in there somewhere (in addition to a live orchestra... he cheats). I'll have to say that I'm having a little bit of second thoughts about lack of intensity comment. Maybe it could do with more compression and/or more intensity, I don't know. I was thinking of a track I did at one time called "Storms". It's not an intense trailer track but the intros are more or less similar for the first couple of seconds. I've been doing an A/B between the two and there's not a huge difference...www.DaveWaltonMusic.com/MyMusic/Storms. ... trueAdding low brass (trombones, french horns) helps things growl, adds more intensity. You've got that going in the high range later but in the opening maybe some kind of brass, maybe good low quick hits with the trombones in octave. Gold has those great low trombone quick notes. I haven't figured out the trick enough to explain it but when those are combined just right with the basses and maybe timpani it really creates the illusion of depth. Also, letting the cellos come though more seems to create a clearer bottom end.Last but not least, if you're not using the Wager bass drum, find a place for it in this track. "One thing for sure", as Matto once described it so elequently... "that Wagner bass drum kicks butt!". I don't have good trailer/promo track. Another reminder to add this to my ever expanding list of things I need to do.

Cool, thanks for the mastering tips. I guess the main thing I'm really fighting at this point is lack of processing power, which I'll only have to do for about two more weeks luckily (I'll finally be upgrading from my lowly little ibook G4 to a 8-core Mac Pro!). Therefore, it's almost impossible to use all of the instruments that I want and still have any power left over to do a decent mix. I'm forced to do more submixing than I'd like, and I'm finding that, especially with orchestral stuff, I can really notice the loss of quality from generation to generation. Then the mastering just brings that out. So, like I said, I shouldn't be dealing with this much longer. The only other thing I'm going to have to wait for is PLAY to be released for Gold (should be within the next month or two I was told at NAMM) so I can use it on the new Mac. Anyway, I'll definitely try implementing more of the instrumentation you suggested when I finally have a computer that can handle it!Thanks again,DanBTW: I really like the track you posted up there; it sounds great

Quote:I'll finally be upgrading from my lowly little ibook G4 to a 8-core Mac Pro!We won't like you anymore then. I don't have that but an upgrade to a decent quad-core PC is making a LOT of difference for me. Compromising on what to use isn't an issue anymore.Once you get that, the Wagner bass drum won't be the only thing kicking butt!

Daniel,Good piece. Good writing and orchestration. Would work well for a trailer.As far as making things punchier, one trick is to compress the drums and percussion as a group. They will be punchier and will not suck the life out of your mix by triggering the master compressor. Big bass and drums will steal your headroom if allowed free rein.Here's a couple of pieces I did that use the idea of separately compressing the drums. They aren't as overtly trailer style as yours are but I think they get the point across.:Back Story: http://www.johnmazzei.com/song/39To the Edge: http://www.johnmazzei.com/song/3Keep up the good work. The 8 core is drool-icious, I hope you can sleep at night knowing all your forum buddies are green!! Cheers,Mazz

Quote:Therefore, it's almost impossible to use all of the instruments that I want and still have any power left over to do a decent mix. I'm forced to do more submixing than I'd like, and I'm finding that, especially with orchestral stuff, I can really notice the loss of quality from generation to generation.All the more reason why I continue to use standalone equipment.That was always a concern of mine, if I had enough processing power (which I probably don't) to be able to mix, what with all the virtual instruments, and effects processing goin' on. So I just convert any midi tracks from the virtual instruments into audio, export 'em as .wav files and import into my Alesis HD24, and mix and add effects the old-fashioned way. Never have to worry about processing power. And like D "dub", use T-racks to fatten that thing up after mixdown. Works out pretty good that way, so far. BTW, great tracks guys!!ibanez468

Quote:Daniel,Good piece. Good writing and orchestration. Would work well for a trailer.As far as making things punchier, one trick is to compress the drums and percussion as a group. Sometimes I don't even really know what I do. I almost always compress the percussion (bombastic drums) as a group, sometimes individually though (if I get wierd sounds from a particular percussion instrument in the compressed group). It does leave a lot more headroom for everything else, seems to make things more intense and the "master" compression is usually low enough that everything else is enhanced without much additional effect on the already compressed percussion individuals and groups.

Yeah Mazz and Dave, I always compress drums and percussion individually when I'm doing rock and pop stuff, I guess I was just thinking that orchestral music was fine with those extra dynamics. Then again, we're not really talking about orchestral music here! So I'll definitely be experimenting with more of that after this upgrade here.... Oh, and as far as the 8 core, Mazz, I just decided that it was something I had to figure out how to make happen...so I hope you guys don't end up too jealous