Members using LASS - What's your process?

[DouglasH]

MEMBERS USING LASS – What’s your process?

I need your help if you write orchestral cues using LASS or LASS First Chair.

I received a return for an orchestral cue because…
1) not broadcast quality, and 2) “Consider that the virtual instruments used sound a bit stock. You may want to investigate current plug-ins that offer a more authentic modern orchestra ensemble performance.”

I believe the cue hit the posting right on the downbeat; I got nicked for the sound of the orchestra.

https://soundcloud.com/user-473206381/o ... rings-only

Here is my process for recording the strings:

I used Los Angeles Scoring Strings and LASS First Chair staccato for all five parts… 1st violins, 2nd violins, violas, cellos, and basses - doubled each one.

I played each part individually, ten total. I EQ-ed the sweet spot of each section and raised it 2db using Neve 1073 and 1081 plugins. I EQ-ed the upper strings for some air at 10k 4db using a Pultech EQ-1A plugin. I bussed all strings and compressed using a LA-2A plugin. I used a plate reverb at 1.1 seconds for the entire orchestra. I added a Lexicon reverb Large Spaces setting at 2.6 seconds to the entire strings mix.

On the output buss, I Match EQ-ed the mix to Zimmer’s “A Watchful Guardian” from The Dark Night. Added an Oxford Inflator at 33%. I compressed the entire mix with a Fairchild 670 at +1db. Then, I mixed at -6db peak level.

I mastered using IK Multimedia Lurssen Mastering Console using the ‘Orchestra (Less Glue)’ preset, but needed to drop the makeup gain to 3db for a LUFS of -11db.

For all that work, I somehow succeeded in making a great string library sound like a $99 Casio. Too much processing? Just insert the original string patches and leave them as is?

So, what’s your process for making a great sample library sound even better? I cannot afford to bring in a string quintet to overdub it, and I would love to ‘Write, Submit, Forget, and Repeat’ but I would be repeating the same error that I got in the returned review.

Any advice or assistance is appreciated.

Doug

[ttully]

Hi Doug,

There is no track when I click on the link you provided ...so it is very hard to say what does not sound right!!!

BUT
I use LASS for all of my big orchestral tracks....

I really do not follow ANY convention.... I usually start with a Cello...I just pick one...and just keep adding different instruments til the track sounds good....absolutely with zero plan.
No compressor on any tracks, I EQ them all and cut the low end out completely and use a reverb on each track and another reverb on the whole thing...just like you.
Then on the master fader... just an EQ, a Compressor and a Limiter.

And they usually sound pretty good....at least the TV shows and libraries love them.... but i REALLY concentrate on the DRUMS.... I spend 80% of my time working on the percussion.

My 2 cents worth,
Tim

[Kolstad]

Did you check for phase issues after you doubled the patches?
It's a very good library, so phase might be the issue.

Also lass is very dry, so you might put the strings into a room first, to get the notes to "bloom", and then adjust the space with a bigger hall ect.

If I use a compressor on the mix bus, I like to put it on from the start and mix into it. I've found that if I put it on at the end, a compressor can mess up the balances for me, and make me fiddle a lot to get the sound as I like it.

[ttully]

Yes....what kolstad said about the compressor....

I too, write and mix with a compressor on the master buss.
In fact I even have EQ and a limiter running all the time on the master buss.

So I know exactly what the finished sound is going to be like while I'm still writing the track.
(Of course there may be some changes to the limiter settings and EQ)...

My limited 2 cents worth,
Tim

[DouglasH]

Thanks to all...

So great to know that libraries like this string program.

I'll check to phasing and make sure that I put the strings in a room and then on a stage.

And I will certainnly put a compressor on the mix buss.

All so helpful.... thanks

Doug
I forgot to set the soundcloud to public... probably accounts for the empty link.

[GBall]

Hello Doug,

Caveats for sure since we (or I) still can't hear the link yet. But I think the reviewer's comment #2 about them sounding stock isn't about the mix exactly. I read that as saying they don't sound enough like real strings -that they sound too "synth like" in the reviewer's opinion is how I interpret the comment. If so, you can't fix that with EQ.

If you use basically one sample, then all the notes will sound pretty much the same with some minor differences due to velocity or pitch. And that would make the very best library sound like a synth. Layering or doubling them would make a homogenous synthy sound worse, as strings tend to lose detail the more of them you have in a part.

In Sibelius I write instructions into the score very specifically of how I want each part played - sort of over written, like you might if you were writing for beginning players. And then I have a mapping in Sibelius that reads all of those all marks, accents and articulations and plays a different sample for each one (it switches MIDI channels basically on the fly): Like: different samples for an up bow versus a down bow, For articulations, for aggressive notes, for legato, etc. I set it up to trigger different samples for short notes versus longer notes, Samples for 4th position versus playing open strings - that's were it begins to sound real for me. You might be able to do that with a keyboard and switch samples using keyswitches, but you'd be a better player than me.


Keep or Sweep Man,
Greg

[DouglasH]

Gball - Thanks for all. It is really helpful!!!

[andygabrys]

I guess this is the track right?

https://soundcloud.com/user-473206381/o ... firstchair

What listing did you write this for?
What were the reference tracks?

Screeners comments about: Not broadcast quality - which is more than just the mix. The composition, orchestration, and arrangement are going to figure in to this. If you put your piece in a playlist with the reference pieces - and sent it to an educated listener - would they pick out which track was yours? Or would they figure that all of them were totally pro?

My main comment - everything sounds in your face and I don't get the sense of strings in a hall.

If you are using LASS full using the stage and color might help you to get some basic ambience on the strings that when mixed with your other verbs could give you more of a lifelike sound.

If you are using LASS full were you using the divisi sections as well? The built in looseness of those sections can help make stuff sound a little more human.

Is there much CC automation going on as well in this piece? LASS has a good range of sound from soft to loud and this sounds like a lot of loud hard bowing.

Hope the different perspective helps. Good comment above about doubling strings as well. If you have another library it can be used to help give the strings depth instead of doubling with another instance of LASS.

[DouglasH]

Thanks Andy.
All good points that i will work on for the next submissions.
Thanks