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Hey everybody! This is my first post to the forums... hoping to become more active and involved around here!

Just got my first return. No big deal, but I am a little bummed about how short the critique I got was. The screener said it was a "very good song," but not right for the listing (which I think is absolutely fair), but didn't say much else at all. Also, I got straight 6s with no real explanation for the mediocre/poor scores or constructive criticism. So... I'm throwing it out to you guys! Let me know what you think of the writing, production, and performance, and maybe what types of listings you think I should submit to. Be brutal!!! I can totally take it, and I promise I won't get defensive!

The song is called "Jet Black Train." The listing was S100923AR (not that it matters anymore).

www.taxi.com/slehmanbrown

Cool tune! The obvious comparison would be the Black keys, so definitely target listings with them as an ala. Mix is pretty dry, especially the lead vox to my ears, just lacking a certain presence. I'd like to hear a bit of dirt in the vox with perhaps a slapback delay? Worth a try. I think the overall production could go somewhere a little more experimental without losing the vintage, raw feel, just to give it more forward momentum and to maintain interest.

Good luck!
Your neighbor to the north, eo.

eeoo-

Awesome suggestions! Thanks. You're very right about the mix being dry... no reverb or delay whatsoever (other than a little bit of the natural room sound). I get nervous adding reverb to loud rock tracks, in fear of it getting too boomy or muddy, or of it sounding cheesy. But I think you are right about a little bit of effect thickening the sound. If you can think of any specific tracks with the sound you are thinking of, let me know so I can try to model after them. Thanks again!

-stert

Hey Stert! First off, I'll put on my "musician's" hat --- Really top-notch vocal. Extremely competitive in his day and age. Sounds to me a bit like Chili Peppers, especially with no effects on the vox. Great bass intro. Nice guitar sounds. Pounding drums!

"Producer's" hat --- The drums are recorded with too much cymbals. It's great to get a live drummer for this type of song; don't get me wrong on that. The cymbals pretty much wash out the snare and kick, which are most essential in a genre like this. Also (don't tell the drummer this, 'cause he/she's really good!), some of the fills are out of time. Just barely.

I'm not sure about the aforementioned addition of effects to the vocals. I doubt reverb. Maybe some subtle stereo delay?

You might want to compress the bass more. If you lose the definition, add a little EQ post-compression. --- How did you record the guitars? Nice!

That's it! Fantastic work!

All the best,

Ern

Yeah, I'd be careful of reverb in a track like this, I was thinking more short delays, some "effecty" compression/distortion. Listen to a record by the Black Keys called (I think) Attack and Release produced by Danger Mouse for some inspiration.

eo

Reminded me of Black Sabbath crossed with Led Zeppelin, but admittedly I haven't kept up with the later hard rock.
The bass sounded great, I would have liked to have heard the drums and guitars more up front, compression maybe. You might try some slap back delay on the vocals.

Thanks for all the input so far.

I've been struggling with the cymbals for sure. I've already rolled off TONS of high end on the overheads-- the drummer's ride has crazy loud, super high overtones that get really annoying and overwhelming. I'll try just turning the overheads down and the close mics up.

The guitar sound is totally by-the-book: Marshall half stack with a 57 shoved right up against the grill. I recorded it in a huge room, but I don't think much of the ambience showed up on the track.

I'm probably going to re-record the song soon, so feel free to make suggestions about the music even if they can't be fixed in the recording I already have.

-stert

stert wrote:Thanks for all the input so far.

I've been struggling with the cymbals for sure. I've already rolled off TONS of high end on the overheads-- the drummer's ride has crazy loud, super high overtones that get really annoying and overwhelming. I'll try just turning the overheads down and the close mics up.

The guitar sound is totally by-the-book: Marshall half stack with a 57 shoved right up against the grill. I recorded it in a huge room, but I don't think much of the ambience showed up on the track.

I'm probably going to re-record the song soon, so feel free to make suggestions about the music even if they can't be fixed in the recording I already have.

-stert

Stert, you're doing all the right things --- keep experimenting! Turning down the overheads is a good idea!

Marshall w/a 57 is classic! I do that with my Soldano. Sometimes, if I want more room ambience, I'll use one or two condenser mics pointing different ways in the room. Turn off the 57, get a nice room sound bouncing off the wall, ceiling, your dog etc. Then, turn on the 57 and blend in the direct sound as much as you want! Tip: Since you are using 2-3 mics, make sure you check out the guitar track in MONO, so that you don't have phase cancellation problems. You'll hear a swishing, flanging sound, and if so move the ambient mics around so that effect stops.

HTH,

Ern

Great sound

All 6's doesn't seem right at all

Your voice is perfect for this, but it is not as clear or centered or something that it should be?

Sounds almost like a live performance??

What Marshall series amp is that. Great bite.

To be quite honest, the sound is fantastic, but the production is not quite there.

Nice to meet you

Sincerely

paul

You guys have good ears! This actually is a live performance... we overdubbed the vox and doubled the guitar, but drums, bass, and main guitar were all tracked at the same time in the same room.

I'm starting to think the 6s might have been the screener's way of saying "not applicable because not right for the listing." Or maybe he/she just thought everything could use a lot of improvement, which is totally understandable.

I'm gonna try to remix the track and repost it soon.