Questionable Review on Haunting Instrumental

[JPF]

I received a review for listing #S130131IN (description at bottom). I submitted my tracks "What Follows" and "Dark Places" (on my taxi page http://www.taxi.com/jfeulner ) The review I received was vague, and I understand some are more helpful than others, but I have a few questions I'm hoping someone can help me with. Both tracks were reviewed as "raw" with comments for the former including "dry and computer generated" and the latter including "too simplistic." Can someone take a listen and give me more clarity on the "raw" comment? Is this a reverb/space issue? Can someone give more specific compositional notes?

Also, for "Dark Places" the reviewer specifically mentioned that I should turn off the click track. I'm pretty sure I did turn it off, and when I listen on the website, I don't hear a click track. Can someone take a listen for me? Is the drum track sound "clicky" or is it possible there was a mistake and the work I submitted was not what was reviewed? Anything like that ever happen to anyone else?

Thanks in advance for responses; here's the listing description:

SUSPENSEFUL, UNDERSCORE INSTRUMENTALS are needed by a Music Library for various Reality TV projects. They're looking for the type of dark underscore instrumentals you'd hear on popular crime scene and police drama shows. Tracks submitted should provide the right MOODY, TEETH-GRINDING tone that will keep the audience on the edge of their seats. This is an exclusive deal with the composer retaining 100% of the writers share. If they like what they hear, the Library may reach out to you to create more cues in this style so you must be an active composer with a home studio. Please do not submit montages or medleys of several pieces of music. Your instrumentals must be at least 2 minutes long. All submissions need to be Broadcast Quality (excellent home recordings are fine). Original instrumental pieces only. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than Thursday, January 31, 2013. TAXI #S130131IN

[hummingbird]

Hi I don't hear a click track either but I think the drums in Dark Places have a clicky sound. At the beginning of What Follows the strings/synth sound a bit programmed.

How did you compose these? What parts are live and what parts are VSTs or drum machines? I'm assuming the guitar tracks are you

I think the 'rawness' and the 'too simple' are the screeners way of saying the organization of the sounds in the mix leaves the ear without something specific to latch on to. I would suggest ensuring that there is a repeating motif (which can be played by different instruments) that is the 'melody' that is always centre/forward in the sound landscape, and pulls us through the piece.

The end of Dark Places was full and rich, it was at this point I went "ah ha!". Start with that richness and the rawness will disappear.

The Hans Zimmer samples on this site might be a good A/B, listen to a few clips and compare your mix
http://www.allmusic.com/album/pacific-h ... 0000263935

Hope that helps. Love to hear either track if you decide to rework it.

H

[VanderBoegh]

Hey Jon, I'll chime in with a few comments here. In some cases, I'm on your side. In other cases, I'm with the screener's. (This response only relates to "Dark Places", as it's the only tune I had a chance to analyze.)

First off, like you, I'm also confused by the "click track" comment on this song. I don't hear anything that might be construed as a click track leaking through. But perhaps the screener had some serious studio headphones on while listening, and maybe picked up on some bleed-thru clicking? It's possible, but perhaps a stretch. More likely is that the screener heard some of your congo drums hitting on the down beats, and sometimes your handdrums do have a similar sound to certain DAW clicks. I don't want to make excuses for them - or you - here... just trying to figure where this comment came from as well!

Now, as for the "Raw" factor, I agree with the screener. The recording is definitely not of a pristine quality, and I'm pretty sure that might be reason enough to get you a return on this song. For example, at 1:46 you can hear a very audible lead-in sound (not sure how to label this) before the guitars hit their first note. This happens a few times in this song, and can often be the difference between being labeled "amateur" and "professional". Just pay attention to these small details and clean all of these things up to stand a better chance. Also, in my opinion the entire track is too dry. I'd really lay some reverb on individual tracks directly, then as stereo bus's, then maybe even a slight reverb on the master track. These suspense cues are often super-heavy on the reverb. Maybe try adding some delay to some of the tracks as well. Just do something to the wetten up overall sound, as this seems to sound a bit like "I recorded these drums on pots & pans in my kitchen".

I realize it's always better to receive feedback like this BEFORE you submit, as it doesn't exactly help you at this point. But perhaps you could go back in and make some tweaks to have a better song ready for the next time a listing like this comes around.

So, overall, I'm going to side with the screener on this one.

Best of luck on future submissions, Jon!

~~Matt

[andygabrys]

Vikki has a great point: a motive can be manipulated a lot to provide a couple minute piece, and saves lots of compostional ideas for the next number of pieces. Sometimes its gets a little dense if there is too much going on.

simple ideas, with appropriate solid production are often winners.

In general, after a return, some self study is in order. I start with re-listening to the references.

popular crime scene and police drama shows

So which are those? CSI? NCIS? others? those would be good places to start. Watch a couple episodes and A/B the music in the show against your cues. Turn down your cue so its approximately the same level as the track in the show. That will help put it in context.

Take note of the kinds of sounds that are typically used - the kinds of drums, the quality and amount of reverb, do they use strings? in what way? high pedal tones? something else?

What kind of compositional form is used on these tracks? Is it like a song from with repeating sections? or does it start with a motif and repeat and change it throughout?

What kind of mood is created? where is the tension? How is the tension created? Rich sounds? Atonal composition? Drums? is there a release? Does it shift moods? does it get happy? What happened onscreen that corresponded with that?

Its a great study to try and replicate a mix as well. Both of your tunes have somewhat dry sounds that are pretty much in my face (I think they are also loud, like limited a little louder than your might need). I don't really get a sense of depth. Some tools are reverb and delays (especially delays in tempo and sent to a reverb as well), and high and low pass filters. Rolling a little high end of something can make it seem a little farther away, and when combined with reverb, it can give your mix a real soundstage and depth. Especially using several reverbs in the project - short, medium, long. stuff that is in the background takes longer verbs. and vice versa.

In Dark Places, I think the click track comment actually has nothing to do with hearing a "click". I think it relates to the "stiff" feel of the music. Sure everybody uses click tracks a lot, but its possible to making stuff flow and sound in time (on the grid) without making it sound stiff. There are a lot of strong downbeats in the melodies in Dark Places, which contributes to the feel.

EDIT - raw and computer generated = the sounds that you get from loading up a string patch (or similar) and just playing without automating timbral or volume changes.

Like LA Scoring Strings is a great string package. if you called up a tremolo patch, and just started playing, it would still sound like a keyboard string section. take the same line and use some volume automation or expressiveness via automating CC 11 or CC1 in the case of LASS, then the note could start with a little less and swell into the section as it develops. Strings have a particular way that they finish phrases too, the note just doesn't end or go from uber-loud to nothing immediately. That definitely applies to What Follows.

Or in the case of drums, calling up a default patch and letting it rip on a midi loop. That can sound right in the right song, but other productions need more to bring it to a satisfying place. The sounds might need more reverb, they might need some delay. They might need another feel - the drums in Dark Places go through some challenging feel, it creates unease through the juxtaposition of rhythmic feels, and not because of the composition ideas.


I hope that is constructive. It would be cool to hear these tracks again if you work on them again. good luck!

[tordenspyd]

+1 on andys suggestion the click track comment has to do with the rhythmic feel. Maybe you still would like it if some of your phrases where syncopated?
re 'raw' - reverb might do it and in particular on the naked solo instruments in the beginning of 'What Follows'
It is kind of interesting listen that in-your-face too. It is original in this context, So the screener guides you how to sound more like the rest, sort of

[JPF]

Thanks for all the advice! Clearly I need to use the forums more. This is all very helpful and constructive. Thank you all for taking the time to listen to my work and provide feedback.

Matt - it's never too late to receive constructive feedback. There will be another listing, and I'll re-work when I get the chance.

Vikki - the guitars on both pieces are me, the plucking at the start of What Follows is me (on a ukulele), then a string library comes in (as you all mentioned). The drums on Dark Places are an EZDrummer library. I'll work on those.

Thanks again for all the feedback. I'll post an update when I get a chance to rework these.

Jon