Screeners paid NOT to forward music?

[wta]

I've been with taxi now for over 6 months and I've had back a few dozen returns and through them all (I'm not saying all that I've submitted is forward worthy) I'm getting the overwhelming feeling that the screeners have a list of "Don't forward if the music has..." and all they're doing is looking for reasons to not forward the music. There is NO motivation at all for them to forward something that doesn't fit the typical mold and we all know that there are tons of big hits on the charts that would never get through this screener process. What information I do get back is next to useless as they aren't saying they "would forward this song if..." so how do I even know if the song is worth working on? It just seems that they're saying a few nice things BUT ... and thats the end of it. If there is a list for the screeners of "Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list? Also I'd like to encourage Taxi to find some way of rewarding their screeners for forwarding songs otherwise I have to think that the screeners will fall into a rut of not forwarding and have no reason to come out of it, especially if they may loose their jobs for forwarding "non-cookie cutter music" (it's just plain old human nature). wta

[sgs4u]

Bummer man. Sounds like you need to vent. Don't know if this is the best place tho. Most of your comments are kinda big generalities, and are pretty tough to respond to. We all get pissed when stuff isn't forwarded. The learning curve around here can be pretty steep and it looks like you just made a big faceplant. After 2 years (and a few hundred returns), my nose is almost worn off, myself. The one thing I can guarantee you, is that it'll be impossible for you to learn what's not working for you while you're in that frame of mind. The only way the more experienced cats around here could help you is if you post one song, the listing you submitted it to, and the review details. That only works for one song. Every song is a specific situation. After you get reviews on a bunch of tunes, you'll start to see the common themes. another way you could get more in-depth info is by paying for some of the custom critiques for the songs you think are close enough. I think screeners are actually paid not to forward music for a few of key reasons. 1) The song isn't what they think the client is looking for. 2) The song sounds less than the Broadcast Quality standard. 3) The song's lyrics aren't the right subject matter for the client.There are tons of other reasons a screener could be being paid not to forward stuff. The truth is, they're being paid NOT to forward the stuff that isn't good enough, and they are also being paid to forward the GREAT stuff. Your perception of which part of the job they're using on you, is up to you. Comparing hits on the radio to what you think Taxi should be forwarding, is pointless. The standards for fowarding songs, to listings going to artists, are incredibly high. Here's a scenario for you: Imagine yourself as an accomplished artist, and you just wrote and recorded 15 songs for your 3rd record. Now some guy at a label, or your producer says, I want you to listen to this other song here, because it's frikkin awesome... How would you react? What are the odds, that you would actually be willing to pay attention to that song?And how good do you think that song would have to be to impress you enough to put it on your own record, and take one of your songs away? Do you have a better idea of how good songwriter's songs need to be, now?Oct 2, 2008, 8:54am, wta wrote: I've been with taxi now for over 6 months and I've had back a few dozen returns and through them all (I'm not saying all that I've submitted is forward worthy) I'm getting the overwhelming feeling that the screeners have a list of "Don't forward if the music has..." and all they're doing is looking for reasons to not forward the music. There is NO motivation at all for them to forward something that doesn't fit the typical mold and we all know that there are tons of big hits on the charts that would never get through this screener process. What information I do get back is next to useless as they aren't saying they "would forward this song if..." so how do I even know if the song is worth working on? It just seems that they're saying a few nice things BUT ... and thats the end of it. If there is a list for the screeners of "Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list? Also I'd like to encourage Taxi to find some way of rewarding their screeners for forwarding songs otherwise I have to think that the screeners will fall into a rut of not forwarding and have no reason to come out of it, especially if they may loose their jobs for forwarding "non-cookie cutter music" (it's just plain old human nature). wta

[Casey H]

Oct 2, 2008, 8:54am, wta wrote: I've been with taxi now for over 6 months and I've had back a few dozen returns and through them all (I'm not saying all that I've submitted is forward worthy) I'm getting the overwhelming feeling that the screeners have a list of "Don't forward if the music has..." and all they're doing is looking for reasons to not forward the music. There is NO motivation at all for them to forward something that doesn't fit the typical mold and we all know that there are tons of big hits on the charts that would never get through this screener process. What information I do get back is next to useless as they aren't saying they "would forward this song if..." so how do I even know if the song is worth working on? It just seems that they're saying a few nice things BUT ... and thats the end of it. If there is a list for the screeners of "Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list? Also I'd like to encourage Taxi to find some way of rewarding their screeners for forwarding songs otherwise I have to think that the screeners will fall into a rut of not forwarding and have no reason to come out of it, especially if they may loose their jobs for forwarding "non-cookie cutter music" (it's just plain old human nature). wta Hi WTA, nice to meet you... Now I know I risk being written off as a taxi mole, but here goes... Taxi screener do not work with a "do not forward if" list as much as "forward if" list in mind. Yes, in the forward criteria there may be a few absolute no-no's but the concept is that they forward if it closely matches the listing criteria. How closely varies from listing to listing, some are "high bar", some lower.Regarding "fitting the mold", taxi takes listings from the music industry. A large percentage of the time the industry folks are looking for something similar to what is currently successful. That's just the way this business is. If a listing says they want songs that sound like acts A, B, or C, that is "the mold" and the song has to sound like that as far as songwriting and usually production (always if film/TV).If you don't think the feedback on the critiques is adequate, why not call taxi and ask to discuss it? If you peruse these boards you'll see that Robin, the head screener pops in here from time to time and is very committed to taxi customer satisfaction. But don't wait for her to pop in. Give them a call at the 800 number on top of this page.Most people here truly want to help others. If you post 1-2 songs with lyrics and the corresponding WHOLE taxi review, we can offer a lot of feedback and advice.If it turns out that taxi just isn't for you (it's not for everyone), they do offer a money-back guarantee the first year.Best, Casey

[davewalton]

Oct 2, 2008, 8:54am, wta wrote: I've been with taxi now for over 6 months and I've had back a few dozen returns and through them all (I'm not saying all that I've submitted is forward worthy) I'm getting the overwhelming feeling that the screeners have a list of "Don't forward if the music has..." and all they're doing is looking for reasons to not forward the music. There is NO motivation at all for them to forward something that doesn't fit the typical mold and we all know that there are tons of big hits on the charts that would never get through this screener process. What information I do get back is next to useless as they aren't saying they "would forward this song if..." so how do I even know if the song is worth working on? It just seems that they're saying a few nice things BUT ... and thats the end of it. If there is a list for the screeners of "Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list? Also I'd like to encourage Taxi to find some way of rewarding their screeners for forwarding songs otherwise I have to think that the screeners will fall into a rut of not forwarding and have no reason to come out of it, especially if they may loose their jobs for forwarding "non-cookie cutter music" (it's just plain old human nature). wta Hi,HoraceJesse (another forum member) and I took the opportunity to visit Taxi for several days, going through some of the training that screeners go through, poking around, interviewing screeners etc. The only thing that screeners go by in terms of forward/return is the listing itself. They read what we read. There are certain "unwritten rules" but these are generic and not a "Taxi thing". One that comes to mind is proper names. Songs with "Jim", "Bill", "Fred", "Judy" whatever... these are hard to place unless the show or film happens to have a Jim, Bill, Fred, or Judy as one of the characters. Screeners LOVE to send along good music... sitting there all day long and not hearing anything that meets the requirements of the listing... that's the definition of a pure drag. Each listing stands on it's own. If the listing wants "quirky music in a wide variety of styles" then send that. But a listing looking for music "ala" Plain White T's... has to be music that is very much like Plain White T's. If they wanted something different they'd say so.My only advice... take the listing as is. That's what the listing company is looking for and others that are getting forwarded are doing so because they're doing that, not because the screeners don't know what they're doing. I suspect that any problems you've been having are non-music related, only an issue dealing with not getting a good interpretation of the listing.Next listing you're going to submit for, post the listing and a song or two here on the forum. You'll get good feedback in advance... maybe enough to get over the hump. HTH,Dave

[matto]

Hey wta,The screeners are not being paid not to forward music, nor are they paid to forward music...they are paid to screen music.Everything that the screener judges to be on target for the listing and to meet the quality requirements (the "bar") set by the listing party, will be forwarded. Everything that isn't/doesn't will be returned.It's really that simple. There is no hidden agenda.I do however agree with Dave, screeners would much rather forward music than return it (although it may not always seem that way); they are all music industry insiders and are sympathetic to our struggles.As far as "cookie cutter" music, Taxi serves as our conduit to the music industry. If a company asks for cookie cutter music, that's what Taxi will send them. If a company asks for "the weirdest, most mindalteringly original music that would never stand a chance to sell a single copy" , then that's what Taxi will forward.The thing to keep in mind is that it is the music BUSINESS that places these listings, and these companies' ultimate goal is always to make money with your music.HTH,matto

[matto]

Oct 2, 2008, 11:14am, wta wrote: If I as a writer don't have a clear breakdown on the screeners interpretation of the listing I'll only get forwarded by chance and not by calculation which equals wasted time with is just plain old bad business.Hmmm, I'm not sure I understand this. Many of us are forwarded on a very regular basis and we aren't exactly geniuses (although some of us may think so ). We simply read the listings, listen to the "a la" artists provided (via the link above) and figure out if our music fits in that ballpark.Also many people post music in the peer to peer section to get feedback as to whether something may be on target if they need a second opinion (as it may be easier for others to classify our music).HTH.

[billg]

Hey WTA, all you can do as a writer/producer is to submit the best music you can to what you feel like is a good fit for the listing, that IS the calculated part. Everything else IS chance. Heck man, the whole business is a crap shoot (actually, your odds are much better to win in craps). I really hope you didn't think otherwise. Now let's gripe about something meaningful . . . like why screeners tell me my music isn't current enough

[Casey H]

Oct 2, 2008, 11:18am, matto wrote:Oct 2, 2008, 10:53am, wta wrote:I asked a specific question in my first post that I noticed hasn't been addressed...""Don't forward if the music has ..." I'd like that list so I can at least know what not to submit. Is there such a list?"No, there is no such list.Quote:Where is the criteria for song submissions and genre types? I've looked all through this site and the taxi website and there is no guideline or breakdown. The genres are the standard genres commonly used in the music industry. Often "a la" artists are used to clarify those genres for people who are not familiar with them. Each set of listing includes, at the very top, a link to samples of the referenced artists. Pretty handy actually...http://www.taxi.com/industry-artists.html I think this link should be publicized more by us here on the forum and by taxi. It can be a HUGE help. Many people (like me) assumed you had to do your own search on sites like amazon.com or iTunes to hear samples. I see the link on top of the listings but it might be easy to miss. Has this been covered in a newsletter?http://www.taxi.com/industry-artists.html Casey

[Casey H]

Oct 2, 2008, 12:58pm, wta wrote: I'm talking about comments like "too classic rock" not "modern" sounding enough, for example or "the words in you verse is to close to the ones in your chorus" and so on. Who comes up with this stuff? Who says I can't use a line in my verse and use it again in my chorus? Really? I'm totally fine with "you song stinks and you should try a different direction cause its boring or lifeless or whatever, I perfer to that over "theres not enough words in your verses"?. Well if you don't think solid songwriting advice like your verse and chorus lyrics should have more differentiation, then you won't be helped by taxi or anyone here. C'mon... if all they said was your song stinks, you'd be screaming and yelling that they are not offering any help as to how to make your songs better. How can they win?Seriously, why don't you post a link to one song and lyrics as well as the full taxi review here for discussion? Without this, the whole discussion really is meaningless anyway.I know you realize this... the people responding are genuinely trying to see if they can help you. Casey

[anne]

Hi Wta - thanks. I'm glad it helped. I just put what I learned from Matt and Dave and Casey and Hummingbird and many other people into a "don't" list instead of a "do" list. Of course, this is music so all rules have 1000 exceptions One point here, and this isn't picking on you or anybody else at all. I really craved a "don't" list like you asked for when I first joined. I wanted clarity to the "rules". I got the same kind of answers you did. I couldn't see it at the time because I was pretty overwhelmed with trying to figure out what it would take to succeed. A list would be easy and I wasn't getting a list, and it annoyed me.So I started to post songs and ask questions. OVER AND OVER AND OVER...This made the process much faster than any list would have, and that is why you weren't finding a "list" anywhere easily. Learning to hit the listings right on the head takes a time and patience and practice. It is not like writing a song to play at a club, or even recording your own songs, for the sake of expressing something in you or pleasing fans.It is being able to speak a language to someone who can't understand you, but to do it so well and so passionately that the listener knows exactly what you are expressing to them. You are ET and they are the Gov't ... That is why the form, structure, mechanics etc come into play in the reviews. For this type of writing (tv / film) you HAVE to put it in a framework so the emotion of the music is easily and instantly understood by the listener, without them really concentrating on the music. Oh yeah, and it has to fit the exact need of the people buying it too, by the way.. It isn't rocket science, but it isn't as easy as a rock fight and there is a definite art of its own. If tv/film is what you are pursuing rather than artist listings, then you have to settle back and learn that form of writing. If you are pursuing artist listings, you have to learn that form. It sounds like you are already well on the way of the artist path, but that doesn't mean you can't do tv/film by any means. It just means you may have to approach it differently. We're all here to help. Even if we get touchy at times