Another Return...thoughts on feedback
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:03 pm
Hey Everybody, I've been lurking around in the forum for about 6 months, but this is my 1st time posting. My long-time writing partner has been a member of TAXI for about 6 months now and so far he's submitted 17 of our co-writes to 30 briefs, with 6 forwards resulting in one song (the very 1st submission) being signed by a library. We also have 2 songs signed to a boutique licensing agency through a relationship formed before he joined taxi, one of those songs being the same song we got signed through taxi. Interestingly, the boutique agency passed on it the 1st time, and 6 months later we resubmitted (same mix) for another brief and they picked it up. We've submitted that song to 3 taxi briefs with 1 forward.
So what have I learned so far? And would I recommend joining TAXI? The short answer is, if you can afford it, yes. You will learn a lot from the experience of writing to briefs and dealing with rejection. You will also learn that the music industry is like a perpetual kick to the groin, and that, like many industries (though probably more than most), there are a LOT of hacks working in the field...a lot of failed musicians, and a lot of people with just bad cliche taste in music making the decisions. And what about the TAXI feedback? I've seen a lot of post questioning the quality of the feedback, and I must say that, when combined with the Song Forwards list, it is, in my opinion, unreliably random. Take this brief as an example:
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A Bunch of ANTHEMIC MODERN ROCK INSTRUMENTALS are needed by a great Publisher with an awesome track record of really big placements in TV Commercials!
They’re looking for Mid-to-Up-Tempo Instrumentals that could fit stylistically on a playlist with the following examples:
2020 Chevy Silverado HD - Ready to Work | Chevrolet
"The Champion" by The Score
"Another Level" by Oh The Larceny
Although some of the references have vocals, this request is for Instrumentals only.
Give them well-produced, contemporary Rock Instrumentals with an anthemic, epic vibe and sound. Killer rhythms and guitar riffs are a must for this pitch. You'd probably be wise to stick with typical Rock-band instrumentation, but some cool, modern ear candy sprinkled in here and there couldn't hurt. If you're using any virtual instruments or samples, they need to be high quality and state-of-the-art as nothing dated or low-quality will work for this request.
TAXI Tip: You can use some simple, non-lyrical vocal chants to add additional "in-your-face" energy to your Tracks. Please do not submit full vocal performance songs, as only vocal elements like, “whoas,” “yeahs,” “heys,” “woo-hoos,” etc.,
will work for this pitch. They're not a requirement, just a suggestion.
Submissions should be about 2 minutes long, give or take. Non-Faded, Button/Stinger endings will work best for this pitch. Do NOT copy the referenced acts or songs in any way, shape, or form. Use them only as a guide for tempo, tone, and overall vibe. Broadcast Quality is needed.
The specific deal points will be handled on a case-by-case basis. You must own or control your Master and Composition to submit to this opportunity. Please submit as many Instrumentals as you’d like, online or per CD. All submissions will be screened by TAXI. Submissions must be received no later than 11:59 PM (PST) on Monday, December 14th, 2020. TAXI # S201214AR
TAXI # S201214AR
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We submitted this song:
https://s.disco.ac/laooarpmbgdy
and got a return that said:
I think you could improve this song by "Taking a more contemporary approach. Check out some of the references provided".
I returned this song because "This is not quite in the 'contemporary rock' anthemic style requested".
- style/genre is off target with the listing
- not contemporary as requested
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Not contemporary enough, huh? Well, I guess I should check out the Forward Blog (here's where the unreliability comes in) and see what did get forwarded. As usual, when I do there are inevitably a few songs that are really well done and I think yeah I would've forwarded that too, but then there are almost always songs that get forwarded that are either off target genre-wise or subpar in objective ways (whether it be mixing, production, poor performances, fake instruments, etc.) making it highly unlikely that any professional would ever use them for sync.
For the above brief there were 5 songs forwarded, 3 of which make sense and 2 that are either subpar productions-wise or more off target than our submission. I'm not claiming our song was a masterpiece, because I'm not that attached to it. It's not a rock genre I like....at all really, and it was only written for sync purposes. So please Cosmicdolphin, feel free to rip this one apart & let me know where we missed the boat.
But regardless, the notion that we forgot to listen to the references is just cheap and insulting. Maybe they should follow their own advice and listen to the references, particularly "The Champion" by the Score, because not only did we listen to it, but as an experiment, we loaded it into the DAW and from it we took the same
- tempo
- key
- song form/structure (similar effected intro, the riff being a 1 bar progression, and the EDM snare bullshit with no kick on prechorus, the drops, etc.)
- beat (until I had my drummer change it up a bit and replace it with a live kit - supplemented with clap samples etc.)
- instrumentation (distorted bass, 2nd filtered guitar coming in midway on verses)
- some similar mix tricks (the filtered intro with the build up swoosh, dropping down to distorted bass on verse, the prolonged build up at the end of the bridge)
So my point is simply this, the feedback by itself can be useful, but only if you figure out how to read between the lines and are confident enough to dismiss it when it's bullshit. Like when they say something like "the midi trumpet sounds too quantized and not real enough" when the, in fact, real trumpet is being played by a professional and wasn't quantized at all, one could interpret that as simply, "something about the horns isn't working (and their ears aren't developed enough to really know how to tell anybody how to actually fix it)." That's still helpful, because they've at least helped identify a problem, though not a solution. But when one looks at the Song Forward List and finds unsuitable material always in the mix getting forwarded it can seem random and confusing. And I think that it just comes down to the fact that we're dealing with people, in an industry (like many) with a lot of hacks. So you got to have thick skin and the passion to just keep plugging away.
So what have I learned so far? And would I recommend joining TAXI? The short answer is, if you can afford it, yes. You will learn a lot from the experience of writing to briefs and dealing with rejection. You will also learn that the music industry is like a perpetual kick to the groin, and that, like many industries (though probably more than most), there are a LOT of hacks working in the field...a lot of failed musicians, and a lot of people with just bad cliche taste in music making the decisions. And what about the TAXI feedback? I've seen a lot of post questioning the quality of the feedback, and I must say that, when combined with the Song Forwards list, it is, in my opinion, unreliably random. Take this brief as an example:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Bunch of ANTHEMIC MODERN ROCK INSTRUMENTALS are needed by a great Publisher with an awesome track record of really big placements in TV Commercials!
They’re looking for Mid-to-Up-Tempo Instrumentals that could fit stylistically on a playlist with the following examples:
2020 Chevy Silverado HD - Ready to Work | Chevrolet
"The Champion" by The Score
"Another Level" by Oh The Larceny
Although some of the references have vocals, this request is for Instrumentals only.
Give them well-produced, contemporary Rock Instrumentals with an anthemic, epic vibe and sound. Killer rhythms and guitar riffs are a must for this pitch. You'd probably be wise to stick with typical Rock-band instrumentation, but some cool, modern ear candy sprinkled in here and there couldn't hurt. If you're using any virtual instruments or samples, they need to be high quality and state-of-the-art as nothing dated or low-quality will work for this request.
TAXI Tip: You can use some simple, non-lyrical vocal chants to add additional "in-your-face" energy to your Tracks. Please do not submit full vocal performance songs, as only vocal elements like, “whoas,” “yeahs,” “heys,” “woo-hoos,” etc.,
will work for this pitch. They're not a requirement, just a suggestion.
Submissions should be about 2 minutes long, give or take. Non-Faded, Button/Stinger endings will work best for this pitch. Do NOT copy the referenced acts or songs in any way, shape, or form. Use them only as a guide for tempo, tone, and overall vibe. Broadcast Quality is needed.
The specific deal points will be handled on a case-by-case basis. You must own or control your Master and Composition to submit to this opportunity. Please submit as many Instrumentals as you’d like, online or per CD. All submissions will be screened by TAXI. Submissions must be received no later than 11:59 PM (PST) on Monday, December 14th, 2020. TAXI # S201214AR
TAXI # S201214AR
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We submitted this song:
https://s.disco.ac/laooarpmbgdy
and got a return that said:
I think you could improve this song by "Taking a more contemporary approach. Check out some of the references provided".
I returned this song because "This is not quite in the 'contemporary rock' anthemic style requested".
- style/genre is off target with the listing
- not contemporary as requested
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not contemporary enough, huh? Well, I guess I should check out the Forward Blog (here's where the unreliability comes in) and see what did get forwarded. As usual, when I do there are inevitably a few songs that are really well done and I think yeah I would've forwarded that too, but then there are almost always songs that get forwarded that are either off target genre-wise or subpar in objective ways (whether it be mixing, production, poor performances, fake instruments, etc.) making it highly unlikely that any professional would ever use them for sync.
For the above brief there were 5 songs forwarded, 3 of which make sense and 2 that are either subpar productions-wise or more off target than our submission. I'm not claiming our song was a masterpiece, because I'm not that attached to it. It's not a rock genre I like....at all really, and it was only written for sync purposes. So please Cosmicdolphin, feel free to rip this one apart & let me know where we missed the boat.
But regardless, the notion that we forgot to listen to the references is just cheap and insulting. Maybe they should follow their own advice and listen to the references, particularly "The Champion" by the Score, because not only did we listen to it, but as an experiment, we loaded it into the DAW and from it we took the same
- tempo
- key
- song form/structure (similar effected intro, the riff being a 1 bar progression, and the EDM snare bullshit with no kick on prechorus, the drops, etc.)
- beat (until I had my drummer change it up a bit and replace it with a live kit - supplemented with clap samples etc.)
- instrumentation (distorted bass, 2nd filtered guitar coming in midway on verses)
- some similar mix tricks (the filtered intro with the build up swoosh, dropping down to distorted bass on verse, the prolonged build up at the end of the bridge)
So my point is simply this, the feedback by itself can be useful, but only if you figure out how to read between the lines and are confident enough to dismiss it when it's bullshit. Like when they say something like "the midi trumpet sounds too quantized and not real enough" when the, in fact, real trumpet is being played by a professional and wasn't quantized at all, one could interpret that as simply, "something about the horns isn't working (and their ears aren't developed enough to really know how to tell anybody how to actually fix it)." That's still helpful, because they've at least helped identify a problem, though not a solution. But when one looks at the Song Forward List and finds unsuitable material always in the mix getting forwarded it can seem random and confusing. And I think that it just comes down to the fact that we're dealing with people, in an industry (like many) with a lot of hacks. So you got to have thick skin and the passion to just keep plugging away.