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Not sure if this is the right place for this. I noticed an entire thread in technology, recording and production discussing the pro's & con's of High End gear Vs. Production/Engineering. I'm pretty much a newb at all of this. I've only been working in the recording industry for 2 years. I have a modest set-up that qualifies as a "home" studio. I'd like some feedback on this piece if possible. It's in the demo stages so I'm not expecting stellar reviews and yes, the intro will be changed, lol. However, for a piece like this I think that the song is 100% married to the production. Without the production there wouldn't really be a song in this case and visa versa. Anyways, let me know what ya think!http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamm3 ... 84&q=hiAny feedback negative or otherwise is always welcome. Thanks!Paul

I think you're definitely on the right way with this. Much better than you'd expect from a self-acclaimed newb. (I miss a thumbs-up smiley on this board) I really like the way the arrangement shifts around from section to section, - it doesn't get boring IMO. Great guitar work as well! The first thing that hits me production wise, is that you seem to be a bit over-cautious on the bass. The lack of bass content makes any production appear harsh and a bit messy.The second thing which adds to the "messy" appearance, is the overuse of fx, in that just about everything sounds a bit smeared. I think the fx on the vocal could work, if the vocal sound was a bit warmer and had a bit more body to begin with.The third thing, and this is more of a personal preference, is that it's extremely difficult to use sounds that emulates "real" acoustic instruments in a convincing way, and in this case I'm thinking about the cellos, violas/violins, and woodwinds. (The piano sound is ok, and will work throughout the song). These sounds are not cheesy enough to make a "gimmick" out of them, they are on the other hand not authentic enough to work as emulations either. There are two ways to remedy this, and that is either to use cheesier sounds to make them a "gimmick" of their own, or to use plain synth sounds (or the real thing) instead (well that was actually three ways). Remember, this is a personal preference of mine.Related to the third point is that the "orchestral" arrangement, if you like, is kind of messing things up, and tends to draw attention away from the vocals. I would back these instruments back a bit in the mix.After you set all the levels of all instruments you can mute everything except for the drums, bass, and vocals. They should be able to carry the song without anything else. Get familiar with how this stripped down version sounds, and then bring the other instruments in. You probably will notice that you automatically want to back the levels down on what you just unmuted.This is my 10 cents, but I think you're definitely on the right track. Keep it up!

Hey thanx for the inupt! Theres still alot of work to be done mix-wise... and yeah I guess you could say I was over cautious on the bassline.... there isn't one yet, lol! The string sounds I'm still getting used to, I just got EWQLSOG last month, this is the second song I've used it in. I think it will end up working just because of the overall feel of the piece (it's got that slightly demented "on the edge" thing to it). I thinned out the arrangement once already and you're right, it still seems to take away from the rest... I'll give it a good haircut and see what happens. Ahh if only I could afford real musicians, lol. Thanks again for all the input, it solidifies some of my own judgements and gives me some new angles to approach it from. Yeah, I am a "newb" as far as engineering goes, I've been a musician all my life, this is the first time I've actually recorded and produced all the tracks on an album. It's been an experience with a sharp learning curve, lol!Cheers, Paul

Thats a reasonable explanation to why I didn't hear any bass then That reminds me of an episode doing backing track sessions for a well known singing artist in Sweden once. He was a notorious alcoholic, and couldn't care less in joining us in the studio when we were laying down the basic tracks.Late one night he comes stumbling into the studio and listened to a song we were working on and said:"Hey! I really like this song, and it sounds great. Though I think the piano might be out of tune".The producer glanced at him for while and said: "That's probably because there isn't any piano in it".The artist then replies by saying: "Well then it's ok! way to go"!

LOL... Luckily I haven't had to work with that situation just yet, can't wait! I love to really mess with 'em when they're baked or sloshed, lol! "The mic IS on!" "No, we didn't record that take..."

I don't think you'd need "real" musicians, the song is pretty well performed in all aspects, and with some "haircutting" and minor tweaks it will appear even better.If this is the first recording you made, you should be proud of yourself. It's only uphill from here...

It's an interesting work. You've got a lot of subtle things going on in there. My only little nit pick is that the vocals don't sound very natural in a few places.I feel that you are trying to convey the depth in the vocals, which works in all but a few places. You'll know when listening to it yourself. To put it in simpler terms. There are a couple of lines that sound forced.

yeah, the vocals are still "scratch", but I know where your talking about. Towards the end during "God isn't dead" when the 'verb gets pushed up it seems a bit much, I'm trying to get it to fade into the background where it's almost felt more than clearly heard. As for the parts with the phase on them, we really like that effect if we can tweak it to work right. It only happens a few times through the song and it gives it that slightly "off" feel. The tune is still in demo stages, so we're still working on new mixes and ideas with it. Thanks for the input!The instruments is where I'm having the roughest time. Finding the right "space" and levels for everything so they don't walk on each other or smear the mix. This is where a 5.1 mix would be alot of fun. Plenty of room for everything and it would really be a mind f**k. Have the organ floating around in circles around the room, strings and oboe/bassoon in all corners changing places.... Hmmmmmm (where's the "evil grin" smiley when ya need it).

Jeffe's got a point. And although I believe his concern is more out of an emotional, and lyrical standpoint, I was thinking about something you could do from a technical standpoint additionally, to make the vocals appear as more clear without losing the "dreamy" feeling.First of all, I think your voice holds up enough not to be "hidden" in fx, so as far as that goes, you could very well have the vocals completely dry throughout the song.What you could try, if the purpose of the fx is linked to the message of the song (I should point out I'm a lyric imbecile, and not English speaking), is to record the vocal with, preferably a large diaphragm condenser mic, and a decent pre, so you'll have a nice, warm bodied vocal sound to start with. If you don't have a condenser, just use a better dynamic, e.g. Shure SM57.Then record a second take (like an overdub) and record it excessively with those fx on the same track as this overdub. Meaning having the fx level equal to the unprocessed signal. At places as set out by the lyrics, you can then "ride" the fader to increase and decrease the second "fx-vocal". Having the fx coming in and out, will add contrast, thus enhancing it's overall impact.I believe this technique also will serve the song better than just putting an fx send on the main, clean vocal track, and riding the send.Another tip when it comes to recording, seeing as you've just begun the engineering bit; Try as much as possible avoid using EQ on pretty much everything you record. Most engineers would consider resorting to EQ as being a failure. Synths rarely need any adjustments at all, if you need it on guitar or any other miced instrument, you're probably micing it the wrong way.The general rule is to deal with sound adjustments at the source instead of in the console (virtual as well as hardware).In most situations, a high pass filter to cut low end on instruments that doesn't need it, is the only filtering they'd need.This is just FYI, should you need any tips. Of course it's up to you what you wanna do with it. I'm sorry if appear as a bit "over-helpful"

Actually it helps a great deal. The 2 track vocal trick sounds like an awsome idea. I hadn't even thought of something like that but I can see the sense in it. Thanx! I've already had plenty of disasters with EQ and learned early... less is more. I have a hard time getting my guitar player to play anything dry... he's a big fan of that damnable Line 6 rig and uses it on everything. I gotta pretty much hide it from him for recording. Live is another story, then I don't mind what he uses to get the sound he wants. Thanx again for everyones input it's been really helpful and as soon as I get my hard drive problem taken care of I'll give it a good going over and let ya hear the results. Have a good weekend!!