Vocal Training

[questor]

Quote:Just a question for any of you interested in vocal training.What kinds of things do you need to work on to improve your own voice?As soon as I can, i'm going to be finishing up the first set of recordings for my site. On my site, one of the features will be mp3 exercise downloads. People will be able to buy individual vocal exercises for whatever they want to work on. This is something a lot of people have asked me to do in the past because instead of taking in person or online lessons, they'd rather just get what they need when they need it. Each exercise will come with either an mp3 file with the description and examples or possibly a written description, with only the exercise its self being on the audio file. I could just read from the script, but I think it might be easier for people to go back and read the stuff, and then click on the exercise to hear how it sounds as they read along. Which would you like better?Along with that, you will get a piano scale mp3 to practice along with.So like I said, what kinds of things would you like to learn? A lot of people are asking for screaming stuff for rock/metal so there will be a full line of downloads for that, and also different exercises to use as warm ups. Basically what do you need help with? Intonation? Breathing? Power? Tone? Flexibility?Also, there will be an FAQ section, so if you have any vocal technique questions feel free to post them here or send as a private message.I'm not trying to sell the stuff, just trying to get an idea of what kind of stuff people want to work on in general. When i'm teaching privately, all kinds of different problems come up that the individual needs help with, so its hard to pinpoint exactly what would help the most people.I am not trying to get on on this debate, but rather to answer the questions originally asked about what I would want in a vocal traing program. But just so that people know where I am coming from in general: I think that one on one is the best if you have the time and especially the money, but even when I did, I really felt that one on one was "mostly" kind of overkill. What I felt I needed in the beginning was to have someone analyze my voice (singing something pre-chosen by the instructor that would test my Intonation, Breathing, Power, Tone, Flexibility, etc. Perhaps a few songs based upon the type of genre I am most interested in singing...(also with a an effort to try to create a good overall foundation as well as any speciality.)Once my initial vocals were analyzed by an instructor, I would then want to be shown all the best exercises to fix any issues and also excercises that help me break bad habits.After that, I would want a week to a month of time (as determined by the instructor) to practice these exercises and simply submit some additional recordings of my voice in the excercises and doing some or all of the initial songs again so that the instructor could give me feedback and keep me ontrack....and keep me shifting to work on whatever evolves as my newest weak area. (Like if breathing is better than tone, I would want to concentrate on breathing until it was stronger than tone, and the re-focus on bringing tone to another higher level...then perhaps back to breathing, or maybe intonation...whatever my new weaker area becomes....if that makes sense).But I can see that depending on a persons time to practice, I should be revaluated once I completed the excercises N number of times (as directed by the instructor)...so my next analysis might be in a week or might not be until a month...it would go at my pace....fast feedback when I am actively during the exercises, and less active if time does not allow.I guess it could be called CD learning (exercises would be on CD) with online submissions and one on one feedback and customization of the exercises to keep me on track...but as I said the one on one type stuff would fluctuate (from often to very seldom) as my experience increased, or as my time to dedicate decreased.It would be nice if we could all practice with incredible dicipline...but life intervienes...so a flexible program that keeps in sync with my life and my skill level would be most attractive to me (and probably to others) since it seems that CDs are no replacement for one on one (or more importantly a feedback loop (no pun intended)). However, if bad habits can be addressed by some person analysis and customized exercise plans, then the one on one (and therefore the monetary requirements) could be lowered with (hopefully) little loss of the quality of the overall instruction.Anyway, that is my uneducated two cents on what I think could and would set apart a vocal training package from the masses already available. Basically combine the best of one on AND audio-CD training. How would it be billed....perhaps for a set price for the CD package that includes 6 analysis feedback loops, and then simply an additional $10 or $20 bucks for each additional analysis loop.It makes a decnet business model since the analysis feedback loops would ONLY be available to purchasers of the entire package. But the additional (inexpensive) cost of the ongoing analysis-feedback loops would also bring in a steady stream of income (provided the analysis and feedback were coming from a good teacher...but that is always an issue with any vocal training).Point it that there is a huge money difference between vocal lessons at $50+ per hour and a CD package at $100 or $200 for a "complete"kearning package....the CD's lack the one on one, so this gives someone who can spend maybe $25-$40 a month on thier vocal training for the analysis feedback, plus the initial cost of the CD package. As opposed to someone who has the money to shell out $250 a month for serious one on one vocal lessons.Yeah, one on one would be the ultimate, but since cost is always an issue....combining the two would probably be of sufficient quality for most (even serious) vocalist when ongoing cost is an issue (as it is for most people in my opinon).Anyway, just my two cents on what I think could be a winning combination for an innovative approach to vocal coaching as well as an innovative way to price it. Additionally, I think breaking into selling in the "vocal system" marketplace is going to be very hard unless you are offering something no one else is offering (be it this idea or some other innovation). Good luck with your site and your business model.Regards.

[hummingbird]

These comments are made from my perspective, based on my experience. Assuming that the above was possible - the analysis takes just as much time as a lesson, so I think that is underpriced, in addition, one would have to devise & record new exercises. I have tried working like this but I don't like it. I feel I need a more personal connection in order to assist the most. In addition, voice is very complex and there isn't just one answer for a particular issue. Sometimes it's a combination of things, and sometimes you have to explore and find the answer for that student. That means trying things out in person and then examining the results. That means learning the language of the student so you can communicate clearly to them. Yes, there are pictures in books & scientific knowledge about how voice works. Science is great & that knowledge is very valuable, but psychology & prior programming have a great deal to do with our approach to singing. Thus - assuming you can find a decent vocal coach - I would think it would be better to have a bi-weekly coaching in person - and that should only cost between $70 and $140 per month. I have some students who, after obtaining the basics, move to coaching twice monthly. I go to my coach twice a month too & work with her on my originals, covers & audition pieces. My two cents.

[questor]

Quote:These comments are made from my perspective, based on my experience. Assuming that the above was possible - the analysis takes just as much time as a lesson, so I think that is underpriced, in addition, one would have to devise & record new exercises. I have tried working like this but I don't like it. I feel I need a more personal connection in order to assist the most. In addition, voice is very complex and there isn't just one answer for a particular issue. Sometimes it's a combination of things, and sometimes you have to explore and find the answer for that student. That means trying things out in person and then examining the results. That means learning the language of the student so you can communicate clearly to them. Yes, there are pictures in books & scientific knowledge about how voice works. Science is great & that knowledge is very valuable, but psychology & prior programming have a great deal to do with our approach to singing. Thus - assuming you can find a decent vocal coach - I would think it would be better to have a bi-weekly coaching in person - and that should only cost between $70 and $140 per month. I have some students who, after obtaining the basics, move to coaching twice monthly. I go to my coach twice a month too & work with her on my originals, covers & audition pieces. My two cents.Just wanted to add that I was simply trying to offer an idea from the perspective of a student that would be constrained monetarily (as most students and musicians are). One-on-one would always be the preferred way to be taught for all the reasons you have outlines in this and previous posts. But what I was trying to do was to formulate a way to get something *better* than just a CD package (and admittedly not as good as one on one personal coaching) while at the same time costing less than personal coaching. Even a little (limited) one-on-one is better than nothing, IMHO.I was trying to find some sort of middle ground that I felt could set the original posters services apart the abundant solutions already available.

[hummingbird]

Quote:Quote:These comments are made from my perspective, based on my experience. Assuming that the above was possible - the analysis takes just as much time as a lesson, so I think that is underpriced, in addition, one would have to devise & record new exercises. I have tried working like this but I don't like it. I feel I need a more personal connection in order to assist the most. In addition, voice is very complex and there isn't just one answer for a particular issue. Sometimes it's a combination of things, and sometimes you have to explore and find the answer for that student. That means trying things out in person and then examining the results. That means learning the language of the student so you can communicate clearly to them. Yes, there are pictures in books & scientific knowledge about how voice works. Science is great & that knowledge is very valuable, but psychology & prior programming have a great deal to do with our approach to singing. Thus - assuming you can find a decent vocal coach - I would think it would be better to have a bi-weekly coaching in person - and that should only cost between $70 and $140 per month. I have some students who, after obtaining the basics, move to coaching twice monthly. I go to my coach twice a month too & work with her on my originals, covers & audition pieces. My two cents.Just wanted to add that I was simply trying to offer an idea from the perspective of a student that would be constrained monetarily (as most students and musicians are). One-on-one would always be the preferred way to be taught for all the reasons you have outlines in this and previous posts. But what I was trying to do was to formulate a way to get something *better* than just a CD package (and admittedly not as good as one on one personal coaching) while at the same time costing less than personal coaching. Even a little (limited) one-on-one is better than nothing, IMHO.I was trying to find some sort of middle ground that I felt could set the original posters services apart the abundant solutions already available.I understand. But say you recorded your practice & sent the teacher a video of where you are with your exercises/songs. They see several things that could be worked on. Then they have to record their feedback & additional exercises for you to work on, hoping you'll understand what they're giving you. The watching/recording could take an hour, an hour you're paying for anyway... so might as well do it live in person.... if you see what I'm saying.

[ajenkz]

This is kind of the set up i'm working on for the vocal critiques, and im basing on how I do video lessons with one of my coaches. After someone signs on, i'll be staying in daily contact with them if needed and i'll constantly record new audio files with them, and they will have them within 48 hours, usually less, so i'll be able to help guide them through any issues at all that come up. Of course, it would be much easier to be there in person, but I can hear whats going on just from an audio file, and if I cant get the exact solution, it usually only takes 1 or 2 tries. I actually do this in person from time to time when im working with someone to test my hearing. I'll close my eyes while they sing something and then say what they are doing wrong, whether it be facial tension, tongue tension, raised shoulders, etc. I'm right 99.9% of the time haha.

[billg]

Wow Steve I just read your post and have to say a big THANKS! But I have to correct you . . . I've developed my vocal "style" from;yes lots of smokes, beer, screaming in smokey clubs (when I was a kid we had to do seven sets a night!) & Jim Beam & Jack Daniels . . . but NO SCOTCH. If anyone wants lessons I'd be happy to help . . . Oh, and there was a lot of other stuff that I probably shouldn't mention . . . damnit, excuse me but the feds are at the door -

[squids]

Quote:Wow Steve I just read your post and have to say a big THANKS! But I have to correct you . . . I've developed my vocal "style" from;yes lots of smokes, beer, screaming in smokey clubs (when I was a kid we had to do seven sets a night!) & Jim Beam & Jack Daniels . . . but NO SCOTCH. If anyone wants lessons I'd be happy to help . . . Oh, and there was a lot of other stuff that I probably shouldn't mention . . . damnit, excuse me but the feds are at the door -Oh. This explains why I sound like you when I talk first thing in the morning. If only I could keep it up all day!! Waiter! More Scotch please! (amongst other things, it's the worst, I second you)! Got bail?