Volume level for submissions

[ComposerLDG]

Basically what you have all remarked is the way I see it too, although I would phrase it differently:

Remember that most mysic is pulled WAY down in volume when placed on tv or in a film if it’s behind dialogue. So that leads some to believe that loudness isn’t important. In some ways if you always get placements behind dialogue then that might be true. But.......

Professionally produced music has certain standards of recorded sound and clarity, stereo width, punch and loudness which is genre specific.

If you want to compete with the music that fits this description, yours needs to be comparable.

Music for sync has to first impress with its message and quality and then be considered for a certain placement.

If a screener needs to jack the volume to listen, or if you send something direct to a super and they have to do the same, it might not be in the running any longer. It’s the perception of being less impressive, and ultimately lower quality.

It never gets placed and then you have a chance to make it sound right. Sure sometimes you might supply stems or even splits to the publisher so that they can cover all the bases and make a custom tweak, or you might have the same for a music supervisor who comes back with an oddball request.

Br there is so much music out there that is already great - they might just move on to another tune that is less work to get in shape.

If you are doing instrumental stuff - google some big production music libraries (i.e. owned my major record labels) and listen to their offerings in a genre that suits your style.

That’s the bar.

Thanks, Andy, for the excellent input. I knew you'd be up to speed on all of this.

[annayarbrough]

Thanks for posting this Loren. I've always been curious about that too. Especially in regards to piano cues—I hate the idea of squishing everything too much just for the sake of getting it louder!

Cass, that's good to know!

Hi Anna,

You're welcome! I know what you mean. I sometimes use a very minimal amount of compression on solo piano pieces. Sometimes I can get a bit carried away and I'll go up and hit a high note and just blast it. It can be pretty piercing if I don't tone it down a bit. A very slight compression helps make those peaks more reasonable, helping the overall volume of the mix without killing it dynamically.

Same! I just finished tweaking a patch that's really rich with a lot of depth... but it comes with a ton of resonance too. Been using a little compression on it and a hard limiter for anything extreme, but I'm always worried I'm going overboard (although I'm probably not).

[MikeC]

Hey Steve I got the exact same thing on one of mine- I started using Landr Now I won't send a track without it-MikeC

[ComposerLDG]

Landr is very cool. My ASCAP membership gives me unlimited 192K masters, useful to have! For the most part, it does a pretty decent job re-EQing and limiting.

[LOCK88]

So Loren, it seems the consensus is "louder is better" ??

[ComposerLDG]

Seems that way, Robb!

[billhewett]

I sometimes use a very minimal amount of compression on solo piano pieces. Sometimes I can get a bit carried away and I'll go up and hit a high note and just blast it. It can be pretty piercing if I don't tone it down a bit. A very slight compression helps make those peaks more reasonable, helping the overall volume of the mix without killing it dynamically.

Hi Loren,

This may be obvious AND/OR it may be completely wrong for solo piano, but I'll mention it just in case: for the example you presented I think that multiple levels of compression might be the way to handle it, making it overall "loud" enough without killing the dynamics. I don't really do anything piano-based, but my guess would be that an optical compressor (or digital equivalent) on the piano track could help tame those errant notes without completely squashing them. Then at the master fader you can try adding both a "mix glue" type of compression and finally the limiter. That *might* be overkill for solo piano, but I do think that the optical compressor set up to catch just the very loud notes before it gets to the limiter would help smooth it out without killing the musicality.

If anyone out there knows that this is a bad idea for solo piano then please chime in before I destroy Loren's next submission ;o)

-Bill

[andygabrys]

...... multiple levels of compression might be the way to handle it, making it overall "loud" enough without killing the dynamics. ....... would be that an optical compressor (or digital equivalent) on the piano track could help tame those errant notes without completely squashing them. Then at the master fader you can try adding both a "mix glue" type of compression and finally the limiter. That *might* be overkill for solo piano, but I do think that the optical compressor set up to catch just the very loud notes before it gets to the limiter would help smooth it out without killing the musicality.

Its not advice at all IMO.

The proof is in the pudding, and solo piano stuff needs very sparse dialogue etc to cut through much if its extremely sparse.

If its a sort of impressionistic style - any high notes are likely played in the softer dynamic range of the piano - so if its a MIDI part just taking the velocity down a little can work.

On the other hand, if its a more active continuous part, its likely going to be pulled down in level somewhat so that the dialogue doesn't get stomped on.

In either case - multiple levels of compression, each taking off a slight bit is going to reduce the dynamic range, and make more of the piece audible at a given level, especially if it is competing with another sound source.

IMO - yes optical type compressors like the LA-2A generally have a "softer, easier" kind of compression and unless you really smoke the piano with it, it attacks and releases with a nice soft touch.

With any more featured compressor, you can also play with attack and release times - like in your mix buss. That can make it sound smooth.

[andygabrys]

btw - multiple bits of slight compression at different stages in your mix is also how you get any kind of track to be controlled and if needed you can then limit the daylights out of it to make it commercially loud.

[billhewett]

btw - multiple bits of slight compression at different stages in your mix is also how you get any kind of track to be controlled and if needed you can then limit the daylights out of it to make it commercially loud.

Thanks for confirming, Andy!

It's definitely my bread and butter for mixing rock and roll, especially with live drums, and it made sense to me that it would work with solo piano. I also know that in loud rock and roll you can use compression to creatively alter the sound, which I imagine isn't what you usually want to do with solo piano.

-Bill