What About That RMS?

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sansharbour
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Re: What About That RMS?

Post by sansharbour » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:38 pm

Very Interesting Post

I don't think that final volume levels were things that musicians started to think about initially
Engineers Mixers and Mastering people have to know this stuff.
Since most of us do everything we have to learn it all....

Gavin if you read enough of Ian Shepherds blogs and videos the haze will begin to disappear
For me its gone from a heavy fog to a light mist.
My readings on the plugin LCast are usually around -13.5 LUFS
My stuff isn't as loud as it could be but I may take it to - 12 or -11 but no lower

Heck you can always Turn it Up and if it was balanced well like Andy said it should sound pretty damn good
Interesting web site
http://turnmeup.org

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Re: What About That RMS?

Post by mojobone » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:47 am

TheElement wrote:Thanks E J. Appreciate that info. 8-)

I like this...it sums it all up nicely: "I saw it explained like this; take the highest point of a wave form (draw a line across) and the lowest point (draw a line across) the middle of those two lines all the way across the wave form is the RMS value."

Yes bass would raise RMS but they say the ear naturally hears more of the mid/high end so that tends to sound louder to our ears.


In the broadest terms, this is true. RMS is a bit of a russian doll, and it can mean slightly different things, depending on the context; it's an average of the highest and lowest amplitudes, calculated in a particular way. The most common context is 1 watt @ 1 meter, with a 1kHz test tone, for whatever that's worth. The thing you need to remember is that RMS is frequency neutral, and the ear hears loudness that way, but frequency response changes with amplitude, according to messrs. Fletcher & Munsen. Kinda like with decibels, where there's dBV, dB/w, DBFS, dBSPL, etc. BTW, the middle of those two lines would be the median, not the average, so not exactly RMS, but it probably won't hurt nuthin' to think of it that way.

Loudness is maybe a surprisingly complex subject. I could write a book, but I was planning to write music, so I'll recommend the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook and Bob Katz' Mastering Audio, 2nd edition. (woops, there's a third edition, scuse me while I go order it) The (most) relevant chapters are YSRM's Understanding Specifications and MATAATS' Manipulating Dynamic Range For Fun And Profit.
Last edited by mojobone on Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What About That RMS?

Post by TheElement » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:02 am

Thanks guys. All good info! 8-)
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Re: What About That RMS?

Post by mojobone » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:39 am

Forum search can be a little wonky, but here are just a couple of recent and relevant threads.

http://forums.taxi.com/topic128729.html?hilit=RMS

http://forums.taxi.com/topic128359.html?hilit=RMS

Maybe search "loudness" or "mastering" rather than "RMS" cuz it comes up a lot. Some of the longest threads in this sector are about loudness.
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Re: What About That RMS?

Post by TheElement » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:16 am

Awesome thanks Mojo. 8-)

I've been monitoring with an RMS meter. Getting levels like -4db to -3db

I think once all the tracks are around that album is good to go.
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Re: What About That RMS?

Post by mojobone » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:53 pm

It used to be, you wanted about 6dB dynamic range for a pop record and for CD replication, the margin for peaks was -.3dBFS, (that's three tenths of a decibel) but when you're converting to MP3, it's probably better to leave at least a dB of headroom, and in either case, if you have less than 3dB dynamic range, you run the risk of having a broadcast limiter crush your mix into wimpy, crispy bits; no bueno.


I like a meter that reads peak and RMS average on the same scale so you can get a visual sense of the crest factor. (peak to average ratio) I use the late Roger Nichols' Inspector. It's no longer available, but there are plenty like it; your DAW may have the equivalent built-in.
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Re: What About That RMS?

Post by TheElement » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:00 pm

Thanks. Its still all confusing to me. I have a RMS meter shows peaks and RMS. Peak is -0.1 and RMS -3 to -4

Using a free RMS meter.

I don't think my tracks are that loud. Just loud enough. Hopefully Discmakers can burn them to CD with no problems. :shock:
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Re: What About That RMS?

Post by mojobone » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:42 pm

Discmakers has lots of info on prepping your tracks for replication on their site and even some free publications you can order. IMO, a crest factor of 3db is the bare minimum; your tracks are pretty danged hot, but maybe not for EDM or Death Metal

:D :D :D .
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Re: What About That RMS?

Post by TheElement » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:19 am

mojobone wrote:Discmakers has lots of info on prepping your tracks for replication on their site and even some free publications you can order. IMO, a crest factor of 3db is the bare minimum; your tracks are pretty danged hot, but maybe not for EDM or Death Metal

:D :D :D .
Thanks. Good to know. :D
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Re: What About That RMS?

Post by MJRivard » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:44 pm

Hi all,
From my studies, RMS is a power rating of a electronic signal. I read an article in a Recoding mag on signal levels. In their example, they showed 3 different wave forms ( one a pulse wave, a sine wave, and a square wave ) all at the same peak meter level. The peak level showed that the signals had the same voltage level. They showed what the level of each wave form looked like on a VU meter. On the VU meter the pulse had the smallest level, the sine wave had a higher level, and the square wave had the highest level. If you have an analog synth you can listen to the sounds of the different wave forms. Just listening you will hear them as viewed on a VU meter. The differences are because of the power level each waveform produces. So with peak level meters, just having a high reading is not enough to get a louder sound. That is what a compressor does. It will reduce the strong peaks of the signal and increase the lower level parts. This increases the power of the sound. If you can see your wave forms, look at them before and after compressing. Before compression, it will be like a thin dark middle section with taller hair like peaks. After compression the middle gets thicker and the hair like peaks get smaller, and the output level is also higher. The thicker wave form shows that there is more power in the signal.

Hope that helps.
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