When are loops "royalty free"?

[Kolstad]

As I get it, samples and loops you buy from places like Soundsonline, Big Fish ect. are 'royalty free'.Still I hesitate a little, as the license is not stated everytime in the sales pitch.Are there subgroups of licences (creative commons, public domain, ?) one should be aware of when we buy loops and samples?Do you need to alter samples from the box, like a drum loop, to make it 'royalty free'/your own?Some loops sounds almost like a record with not only drum loops but more or less full arrangements, and those can't be "royalty free" without tweaking, can they?Anyone on top of this subject?

[mazz]

You must find the publisher's license agreement before you use these loops in your productions.Soundsonline, for instance, requires you to use 2 or 3 other elements with their loops at all times. Big Fish has a very restrictive policy on their "construction kits" which forbids their usage in library music. Spectrasonics is somewhat looser, although I think some of their policy now says that the loops can't be isolated.The onus is on you. If you sign a contract with a library and part of the contract is that you guarantee all your music is original, then if one of these publishers hears their naked loop on TV and traces it back to the library, they'll possibly come after you. Not a good thing.This doesn't usually apply to instrument sample libraries (multisamples of instruments) although softsynth makers usually stipulate that you can't use their factory patches to create a new sample library.I would imagine that you'd want to alter the loops anyway to give them your own sonic signature. Composing with loops is very common these days, but just throwing together a bunch of stock loops doesn't really feel like composing, does it?Buyer beware, read the fine print. Be careful of free loops you download from the internet unless you know and trust the source and the loops are documented as "clean".HTH,Mazz

[Kolstad]

Thanks Mazz,Dammit! I need to read those buyers and licence agreements closely then..I'm used to think in terms of copyright, that is if you provide a melody & lyric, you're good, as that is the only copyrightable in music.When I buy a sample or a loop I think of it as a work for hire, but obviously it is not as simple. I never use free samples for music I want to be commercial.I often write from a drum loop, though, either one I work out from samples or a loop, and leave it for publisher demos. But I'm uncertain if a drumtrack built from loops is ok, if I want to submit a song with that drumtrack for a tv/film listing.So, I guess it depends on the licence agreement. I know some full sounding loops are more like jamtracks, and not for commercial use, but I would never have guessed that even sounds in Omnisphere can be a 'no no'.Of course I will never even consider using a sound without adding my own melody to it, but I feel this is some kind of grey zone, especially as I find the licence agreements hard to understand.But you are saying that I need to read the buyers agrement, and always use sounds in context of my melody. It's not that clear with samples, but I guess samples with melodic content are jamtracks only and cannot be used in context of my own composition..It amazes me that even a kit can be restricted, though, like you mention from Big Fish.. what's the use, then?

[mazz]

Don't get me wrong, sounds (patches) from a synth or sampler are totally fine to use, it's just that something like Omnisphere's factory patches will be heard everywhere on film and TV so customizing the sounds will give you your own vibe.With loops, you are usually buying a license, and the license agreement will specify how you can use the loops in your music. Some can be used any way you wish, some, as I stated above, have more stringent agreements. You need to read them.You have to break it down into categories:1. Loops bought from a vendor (big fish, etc.)2. Construction kits (collections of loops meant to be used as a group)3. Sampled instrument libraries (orchestra libraries, guitar, keyboard, etc.)4. Loops contained within a sampled instrument library5. Loops sampled from copyrighted material.Each of these have different license agreements and you have to read them carefully before you submit any music using them to film/tv placement opportunities.Construction kits are basically full song background tracks that are broken out into stems. If a lazy composer were to just submit the full song made only from a construction kit to a library, how can they morally claim that it's their song? Yet some people have done it, which is one reason their license agreement forbids it. Rules are there because people with questionable morals try to get away with stuff.So keep the categories clear in your mind, and read the license agreements.

[Kolstad]

Great systematic, Mazz! Makes more sense to me.I was mistaken about the 'kit', as I though that would be a vi of some kind where you could break down a loop in it's components, so you'd be able to play your own stuff with those samples. But then it would be just like a sampler..With all those licences hanging around, we need this sort of buyer's guide.Thanks!Feel free to chime in, both if you are confused like me, or have the love, like Mazz!

[Kolstad]

I just read the licence from Big Fish (used as an example, quote):-----------What is Big Fish Audio's License Agreement? [back to top]You can use our loops to create, produce and release your own productions without paying Big Fish Audio any royalties. Our products are "license free" because you buy the license to use our products when you buy that specific product. The only thing you are not able to make with our products is a sample library like the ones we sell, and you're not able to create a music library with any of the construction kit products we sell. You can't resell, loan, or rent any of the Big Fish products you have purchased. Below is a copy of our general license agreement:The samples contained on our products are licensed, not sold to you, the individual end user, by Big Fish Audio. This non-exclusive, non-transferable license is granted only to the individual end user who has purchased an unopened, new and lawfully made copy of this product from a dealer or distributor authorized by Big Fish Audio. All samples remain the property of Big Fish Audio and are licensed only for use in the creation of a recorded or live performance that includes the licensed samples as part of a derivative musical work created by the licensed end user. This license expressly forbids resale, rental, loan, gift or transfer of these samples in any format or via any medium, except as part of a derivative musical work. The samples may not be included, whether unmodified or as part of a derivative work, in any music library or sample library product. Any unlicensed usage will be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible under the law. (source: http://www.bigfishaudio.com/4DCGI/faqs.html )-----------So, like Mazz stated, neither loops nor samples from BF, are legal in a piece submitted to a music library (which many listings in here, are for).Fortunately, I have no such samples at the moment, but I was considering using them in my own productions.But, now I know better than to skim over licence agreements lightly.I'll check out the agreements for samples from Toontrack and NI Kontakt 4 next.

[ragani]

Hi thesongcabinet,I wanted to chime in here, as I had some Big Fish Audio loops that came with the Pro Tools Rack Factory bundle that I purchased. I also read that license agreement, and because I wanted to use the loops in film/tv materials, I decided to write them a letter. In the letter I specified what I'd purchased, from whom, and what I wanted to use their loops for. I wanted to be able to use them free and clear for film/tv, to sell the tracks that contained their loops. (They do make it clear you can't just resell the loops, obviously.)After three e-mails and no reply, I phoned them. They were very helpful, asked me to send them an e-mail again, which I did, and they decided to issue me a license to me for use of those loops in commercial productions and forwarded it to me (free of charge too!). Nice! So I guess it may depend upon the situation. Just make sure you've got your usages covered and cleared in writing. Sounds like you are already on track here... Good luck to you!Raags

[mojobone]

Great post Mazz! This comes up fairly often and ought to be made a sticky or featured in FAQ somewhere.

[len123]

Loops are "royalty free" when you purchase and register them legally, and do not resell them or use them in a matter which competes with the company producing them. When a consumer purchases a loop, and has conformed to those requirements, they can use them however they so choose. When Fender sells you a guitar, they can't charge you royalties on the sound, though they could if you replicated their guitar. It's confusing because loops are a software product, though they are sold for the express purpose of using as one would an instrument, that is their whole premise, and that is what they are sold as, otherwise they are useless.

[Kolstad]

Hi Raags,Thanks for sharing that experience with Big Fish! Very insightful and inspiring (just like your wonderful music!).