Who are doing topline writing?
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Who are doing topline writing?
I wonder how many of you are approaching songwriting like topline writing - meaning writing music first - maybe even build some of the production elements, and then write lyrics on top of that?
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- cardell
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Re: Who are doing topline writing?
I've been doing that for years (and a lot more of it recently).
When I was very active on Kompoz ...its was virtually all I did, for practice (it's all Creative Commons license there).
It was very hard...but rewarding. I'd write the entire melody and lyric to someone else's music bed, then record the vocal.
Here's two from then:
Whisky Coca
Sometimes
Stuart
When I was very active on Kompoz ...its was virtually all I did, for practice (it's all Creative Commons license there).
It was very hard...but rewarding. I'd write the entire melody and lyric to someone else's music bed, then record the vocal.
Here's two from then:
Whisky Coca
Sometimes
Now I'm concentrating on building my own tracks...then coming up with the melody/lyric.thesongcabinet wrote:... build some of the production elements, and then write lyrics on top of that?
Stuart
- burpo
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Re: Who are doing topline writing?
That's how I do it,
although I always have a lyric subject or two
that keep in my pocket.
although I always have a lyric subject or two
that keep in my pocket.
burpo
Stephen Debonrepos
"Flufferpuff" on TAXI TV
http://www.taxi.com/burpo
Long-time hobby musician
Stephen Debonrepos
"Flufferpuff" on TAXI TV
http://www.taxi.com/burpo
Long-time hobby musician
- pedrocosta
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Re: Who are doing topline writing?
Hey Magne,
Same here, music usually comes first then I struggle with lyrics.
And most times I produce on the fly as well.
Same here, music usually comes first then I struggle with lyrics.
And most times I produce on the fly as well.
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Re: Who are doing topline writing?
I usually do both simultaneously, but I've been thinking of approaching the music this way a lot recently. However, each time I've tried topline writing, whenever I try to think of the chorus instrumental section, I start thinking about what hook would be there and this always ends with me coming up with lyrics and melody for that section. There is something to be said for the topline approach, I think, because it allows you to step back from both the music and lyrics and see each objectively.
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Re: Who are doing topline writing?
I usually get hired by lyricists where most or all of the lyric is already done, but nearly all of that is in the musical theatre genre, so it's very clear where you need to go, both lyrically and musically.
I am now working on a portfolio of tunes where I or someone else can add lyrics later. I must say, I'm way more prolific than I used to be.
I am now working on a portfolio of tunes where I or someone else can add lyrics later. I must say, I'm way more prolific than I used to be.
http://dailypianopieces.com
Songwriter and composer Hilmar Leujes creates a new piece of music every day
Songwriter and composer Hilmar Leujes creates a new piece of music every day
- mojobone
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Re: Who are doing topline writing?
If you work alone, it's more efficient to do both at once; otherwise there's a lot of back and forth between the topline writer and the producers. Here's a recent article on the subject: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012 ... t_seabrookjmarkinman wrote:I usually do both simultaneously, but I've been thinking of approaching the music this way a lot recently. However, each time I've tried topline writing, whenever I try to think of the chorus instrumental section, I start thinking about what hook would be there and this always ends with me coming up with lyrics and melody for that section. There is something to be said for the topline approach, I think, because it allows you to step back from both the music and lyrics and see each objectively.
The process is very similar to how Steven Tyler works with Aerosmith. (details are in his auto biography)
- Mark Kaufman
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Re: Who are doing topline writing?
I write every which way, not always starting with the same element...keeps things varied and interesting.
There are many times when I'm itching to do something new, and I want to do it NOW. This is when I most often do it the "topline" way (never heard that term). Sometimes I'll start with a quickly assembled drum track (like 5 minutes, just to establish a rhythm and a vibe), then simply build a track by playing stuff. It's a very Right Brained way to begin things. Once I have a track, I usually burn a CD and begin the "in the car" sessions...driving around and attempting to sing to it, random phrases, whatever. Next thing I know, I have melody and lyrics...
It's a fun way to write. However, it's not always the best way to write--I think it tends to circumvent one of my favorite ways to compose, which is in my head. When I go somewhere quiet, without an instrument, and simply try to envision a song...that one is often a more well-conceived concept than something written topline style. But all these different pathways are what make songwriting fun and results unpredictable.
There are many times when I'm itching to do something new, and I want to do it NOW. This is when I most often do it the "topline" way (never heard that term). Sometimes I'll start with a quickly assembled drum track (like 5 minutes, just to establish a rhythm and a vibe), then simply build a track by playing stuff. It's a very Right Brained way to begin things. Once I have a track, I usually burn a CD and begin the "in the car" sessions...driving around and attempting to sing to it, random phrases, whatever. Next thing I know, I have melody and lyrics...
It's a fun way to write. However, it's not always the best way to write--I think it tends to circumvent one of my favorite ways to compose, which is in my head. When I go somewhere quiet, without an instrument, and simply try to envision a song...that one is often a more well-conceived concept than something written topline style. But all these different pathways are what make songwriting fun and results unpredictable.
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Re: Who are doing topline writing?
I very much doubt that anyone writes the complete music to a song before
attempting the lyrics.
I find In general that most Nashville writers start with the title ,
Then they may write or attempt the music and lyrics to a Chorus .
trying several keys inthe process.
Starting with an interesting Chord Sequence is the way the Beatles
wrote all their Hits.
Mac Cartney states that the music was often re written many many times
using trial and error, before they settled on the final song.
Every song starts somewhere , sometimes we have to be bad to be good
I.e. Re Writes and Re Writes . Tom Snow is one of the few who can write the music first
then get someone like Cynthia Snow to write a Great Lyric , however the question to ask
yourself is what is the right way for you, you may be great at writing a visual lyric that appeals
to many amature friends, but invaribly those lyrics are written by people with no idea
how to use meter correctly. and putting memorable music with great prosody is very hard to do.
I would favor starting with a musical phrase and writing a lyric to that. the next bit is following
that phrase with another phrase that balances the first one both in interest and Contrast
Building that song slowly .
I never get stuck on one song . I work on several songs at once . if one stands out I then give
it some preferance.
In general it's best to start with a musical idea. but for learning writers. that wont produce hits
on it's own, the secret is knowing when and where your song is not working and re writing it till
it does.
I wrote a song two years ago , after listening to it constantly I re wrote the music
and the lyrics around seven times eventually finding music that fitted the EMOTION
of the lyric. That song is now on hold with a top artist.
It's bloody hard work, for unknown writers , and it's not about one song. It's about constantly
coming up with quality songs as good and better than most staff writers.
Best Wishes Denziel
attempting the lyrics.
I find In general that most Nashville writers start with the title ,
Then they may write or attempt the music and lyrics to a Chorus .
trying several keys inthe process.
Starting with an interesting Chord Sequence is the way the Beatles
wrote all their Hits.
Mac Cartney states that the music was often re written many many times
using trial and error, before they settled on the final song.
Every song starts somewhere , sometimes we have to be bad to be good
I.e. Re Writes and Re Writes . Tom Snow is one of the few who can write the music first
then get someone like Cynthia Snow to write a Great Lyric , however the question to ask
yourself is what is the right way for you, you may be great at writing a visual lyric that appeals
to many amature friends, but invaribly those lyrics are written by people with no idea
how to use meter correctly. and putting memorable music with great prosody is very hard to do.
I would favor starting with a musical phrase and writing a lyric to that. the next bit is following
that phrase with another phrase that balances the first one both in interest and Contrast
Building that song slowly .
I never get stuck on one song . I work on several songs at once . if one stands out I then give
it some preferance.
In general it's best to start with a musical idea. but for learning writers. that wont produce hits
on it's own, the secret is knowing when and where your song is not working and re writing it till
it does.
I wrote a song two years ago , after listening to it constantly I re wrote the music
and the lyrics around seven times eventually finding music that fitted the EMOTION
of the lyric. That song is now on hold with a top artist.
It's bloody hard work, for unknown writers , and it's not about one song. It's about constantly
coming up with quality songs as good and better than most staff writers.
Best Wishes Denziel
- Mark Kaufman
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Re: Who are doing topline writing?
Well...don't. I've done it many, many times. Just did it again a couple weeks ago!Denziel wrote:I very much doubt that anyone writes the complete music to a song before
attempting the lyrics.
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