Who do we believe?

[jchitty]

Oct 22, 2008, 9:00am, louis2012 wrote:The one thing that fascinates me about the high bar country listings is the critique of lyrics. Country music (aside from hip hop) has more cheesy, trite, cliched, hackneyed and insincere lyrics than pretty much any other genre! So when a screener returns a country submission and says things like 'try to put a new spin on an old sentiment' I immediately go onto youtube, see the successful country artists of today and I piss myself laughing at the inability of any of these artists to say something new.Its sad when a killer melody gets over looked, I'd love to say to these record company people, 'hey here's a killer melody, why not sign it and get that talentless cracker who can't write his own songs (which begs the question why did you sign him) to mumble whatever trite shite over the top because you only signed him for his looks'.Let's not pretend for a moment more that country has got anything new to say. Ted is right...them's fighting words. I can understand this sentiment though. Artists on the radio can cut just about anything because their fans will purchase their music, no matter how 'trite' their songs sound. They can get away with it because they have a fan base. For the newbie country songwriter...well, we have to write an unbelievable hit to get through, and even then we might not get a cut. That's because we don't have a street cred yet. I have mixed feelings about my own genre. On one hand, I'm a fan of groups like "The Old Crowe Medicine Show." I don't know if you've heard any of their stuff, Louis, but it's very soulful and authentic....and very well crafted. If you check out a song called "James River Blues," you'll see they can compete with any lyric Dylan wrote. They've topped the alt-country and bluegrass list for quite some time, but they aren't a mainstream country group because the majority of buying public are teens. And while I'm sure a lot of teens who like country will purchase Old Crowe Medicine Show, most of them are drawn to artists like Taylor Swift. Some of Taylor's tunes like "Tim McGraw," are good songs though, so I don't wanna knock her really. This is happening in all genres really....rock, alternative, R& B...a lot of music out there is written for the masses.My point is, you can't lump all country together...some of it is fairly profound stuff, mirroring many aspects of society.I've learned though that just because I like to write certain music, packed with metaphors, imagery and symbolism...well, that doesn't mean country fans will like it. In country right now, it's all about the story, and if your story doesn't grab someone (no matter how boring and trite it sounds) you can't get past those gates.So you can either write a song Nashville wants, no matter how boring you think it will be, or you can write unique stuff that may never get an audience. Me, I like a challenge, and believe it or not, I've warmed to commercial country, although I've listened to it for years. It's an acquired taste...like you, I used to hate it years ago, but it grows on you, trust me. Listen to Carrie Underwood's "Before He Cheats" (or much of her stuff) and you'll see those songs are very well crafted as well, no matter how they initially sound to you. Those songs have good bones.Since Matt is on this thread, I don't know if he realizes that he's the one who had an influence on the way I write country now. He once said, "Writing country looks deceptively simple. But it's not that easy." (or something like that) So oddly enough, it takes a lot of skill to write that 'trite' song. I've learned now to write with no stone unturned, and it's still very hard to get those country fowards...I get very few of them.When you start to respect the commercial stuff, you can learn to write it, although by your post, I don't think that's the goal. You may think it's easy to write a country song and that anyone can do it, but I've been a TAXI member for three years, and there are days I want to tear my tresses out, no lie.

[Casey H]

I feel for those who write country. It looks like an incredibly tough road. I think it's important that you, in addition to using Taxi as a valuable resource, work your ass off to also pitch your songs every other way possible. Most folks find that taxi is NOT being more picky than the publishers out there, especially the better ones. However, if your songs are in that "almost" category with very high scores and "missed it by a smidget" or sometimes get forwarded & sometimes not, then I think it's even more important that you market them hard. As an aside, folks who have actually gone to Nashville and pitched directly to publishers say they really do get an awakening as to how tough it is.Use Taxi, NSAI, etc. to get feedback to help you refine your craft. Keep submitting to Taxi. But ask yourself, "what else can I do to take the most control over my musical destiny?" Can you find the names of publishers who will listen? Can you visit Nashville and use the visit effectively? Can you attend workshops, collaborate more, etc?This sort of thing has come up on other threads. Marketing yourself shouldn't be limited to any ONE vehicle. It's so much more than joining any one service and sitting on just that one.Just some thoughts... Thank God for rock 'n roll... Casey

[claire]

Country music (aside from hip hop) has more cheesy, trite, cliched, hackneyed and insincere lyrics than pretty much any other genre! Really?Better As A Memory(artist: Kenny Chesney)I move on like a sinners prayerI let 'em go like a levee breakswalk away as if I don't carelearn to shoulder my mistakesI'm built to fade like your favorite songgettin reckless when there's no needlaugh as your stories ramble onbreak my heart but it won't bleedmy only friends are pirates, it's just who I amI'm better as a memory than as your man.I'm never sure when the truth won't doI'm pretty good on a lonely nightI move on the way a storm blows throughI never stay, but then again, I mightI struggle sometimes to find the wordsalways sure until I doubtwalk a line until it blursbuild walls too high to climb outbut I'm honest to a fault, it's just who I amI'm better as a memory than as your man I see you leanin', you're bound to fallI don't wanna be that mistakeI'm just a dreamer, n' nothing moreyou should know it before it gets too latecause goodbyes are like a roulette wheelyou never know where they're gonna landfirst you're spinning, then you're standing stillleft holding a losin' handone day you're gonna find someoneright away, you'll know it's truethat all of your seeking is doneI was just a part of the passing throughright there in that momentyou'll finally understandthat I was better as a memory than as your manbetter as a memory than as your man

[louis2012]

haha oh god, reading that back it looks as if i was making fun of all country and I'm really not. I'm passionate about Hank, Willie and Cash so I love the old more traditional country music, but I do find modern country absolutely awful. And to me Kenny Chesney is no exception(sorry claire!)And yes I do write country, it comes naturally from me. Its weird but growing up in England I was never into country until I started writing songs, it was as if I was channeling a past life or something. It wasn't until I discovered Hank that I realised what I'd been writing was in fact country. But I also feel that every genre isn't saying anything new, how could it when its been explored so much in the 20th century? The effectiveness of a good lyric is down to personal taste and if it resonates with the listener or not. Its just a shame that in this case, that listener is a taxi screener and so many songs never get a chance to shine because of one person's opinion.

[matto]

Oct 22, 2008, 3:43pm, louis2012 wrote:The effectiveness of a good lyric is down to personal taste and if it resonates with the listener or not. You know, I read this type of statement all the time...but interestingly, virtually never from professional songwriters. That might tell you something right there...IMHO it's a cop-out used by those who don't want to spend the time and effort to master the craft of lyric writing.Those who'd rather use the lame lyrics you hear on the radio as an excuse not to work hard on their own, instead of listening for the great ones that are also being played and use those as motivation and a goal to aspire to.Don't you think *craft* might have *something* to do with whether a lyric resonates with the listener or not?Sorry, just my humble opinion...matto

[matthoggard]

Wow Louis you better cut n run ! :)Its 50/50 for me. I listen to mainstream country every freakin day. Half the new songs are great with killer stories and hooks and melodies.The other half are just pure commercial formula record selling songs.these days most new country artists get 1 album. IF it aint gold in 6 months then the labels are on to the next thing. SO, its all about selling records. For ever bigtime artist (Kenny Chesney, Toby Keith, etc. ) there are 4-5 that usually get 1 hit single and then they are gone. Same with female artists. IF you realy think ALL mainstream country is cheese ill list a few artists to check out that do have current hits on the chart and their songs are way above the rest.Kenny ChesneyJamey JohnsonToby KeithMiranda LambertSugarlandLittle Big TownThese are just a few, Jamey Johnson for me is the most complete songwriter/artist. If you like traditional sounds then youll love his music.Just like rock and pop its all about the next big hit to sell those millions of record and if whats selling is music for 16 year old girls then thats what the labels will be looking for.Thanks god country music is so much larger than what we hear on the radio. And Janet I LOVEOld Crowe medicine Show. Great music!!Rant over now. M~

[claire]

Louis - if you're a country writer, we'd like to hear some of your songs. You can hear mine on Taxi or MySpace or Broadjam. Claire Ulanoff

[louis2012]

Oct 22, 2008, 4:01pm, matto wrote:Oct 22, 2008, 3:43pm, louis2012 wrote:The effectiveness of a good lyric is down to personal taste and if it resonates with the listener or not. You know, I read this type of statement all the time...but interestingly, virtually never from professional songwriters. That might tell you something right there...IMHO it's a cop-out used by those who don't want the spend the time and effort to master the craft of lyric writing.Those who'd rather use the lame lyrics you hear on the radio as an excuse not to work hard on their own, instead of listening for the great ones that are also being played and use those as motivation and a goal to aspire to.Don't you think *craft* might have *something* to do with whether a lyric resonates with the listener or not?Sorry, just my humble opinion...mattoBut all songs are crafted whether it be Dylan or Aqua's Barbie girl song. what some call lame is genius to others.One can sit there and think they've mastered the craft of lyric writing because they avoid the cliches, but have they really achieved this if the listener looks at them blankly like a dog being shown a card trick? I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.will definitely check out jamey johnson,cheers matt.Claire, haha no way would I put my country songs up for scrutiny by the taxi country pros, I know I'm an amateur country writer,its just something I do for my own pleasure (and perhaps maybe get lucky with a forward, but I highly doubt it) *runs away from the pitchfork brigade who are hearing radical opinions from a limey boy regarding country music*

[wta]

Oct 20, 2008, 8:56pm, cameron wrote:I realize that a critique is just one person's opinion, and that there are always other listings... but to me this is one big flaw in Taxi's system. I know Taxi just reflects the industry, but to me, having to get by a screener-- who may or may not share the client's tastes-- just to get somebody in the industry to listen to your song is not a good thing. This is a tricky one Cameron, though I agree with the statement the industry folk call taxi BECAUSE the songs are pre-screened. No screening = no clients to licence music. I've spent much time on this very subject and a few threads have helped in what I'm about to say, though not complicated the following would solve the issue. Here goes... There should be 3 screeners per song submission and each should rate the tune and the songs with a rating of "x" or higher should get fowarded and the rest returned with a critique from all three screeners. That one I offer for free Michael in trade of the great help you where recently, I've got more input on this but I'll save it for a rainy day (I'm one of those guys that companies contract to maximize and streamline marketing, customer relations and the stimulation of profits. , really). '-) wta

[Casey H]

Oct 22, 2008, 5:56pm, wta wrote:[quote author=cameron board=complaints thread=10053 post=95582 time=1224564975] I've spent much time on this very subject and a few threads have helped in what I'm about to say, though not complicated the following would solve the issue. Here goes... There should be 3 screeners per song submission and each should rate the tune and the songs with a rating of "x" or higher should get fowarded and the rest returned with a critique from all three screeners. That one I offer for free Michael in trade of the great help you where recently, I've got more input on this but I'll save it for a rainy day (I'm one of those guys that companies contract to maximize and streamline marketing, customer relations and the stimulation of profits. , really). '-) wtaHi WThe multiple screener thing has been suggested many times before. One thing you have to keep in mind is that it also would dramatically increase taxi's operating cost. How much more would you willing to pay for you membership? For each submission? What would happen (for example) if taxi was $699/year and $15 - $20 per submission? Screeners are paid $xx per hour. To have three screeners per song, you'd have to triple that expense. But it's more than that. The more employees a company has, the more administrative costs- hiring, firing, training, management, etc. It's not practical without raising member fees to the point where there would be few members. There needs to be that "sweet spot" for a business, the balance between their costs and what customers will buy.Taxi hasn't raised it's membership and submission fees since way back in the 90's. Casey