Would "Fire and Rain" be forwarded today?

[Casey H]

Would "Fire and Rain" pass the "Nashville standard" and be forwarded for an opp today? I recognize that J.T. is a singer-songwriter, and that does change the dynamics, but would these lyrics cut it? Below is my TAXI style review of the song that I have posted from time to time on these boards...REVIEW OF "FIRE AND RAIN", James TaylorStyle__ On target for todays market in ________ genre__ Not current sounding_X_ Hard to classifyStyle Comments:Nice mellow sound. ______ ______________________________________________________Melody__ Good music in verses_X_ Verses could be stronger_X_ Good music in chorus__ Verses/Chorus sound too similar_X_ Memorable Hook__ Hook not obvious enoughMelody Comments:Melody in verses a little flat, could use a pre-chorus build __________________________________________________________________________________Structure__ Intro too long_X_ Well-written structure_X_ Good sectional contrast__ Not enough sectional contrast_X_ Could use a bridgeStructure Comments:Could use a lyrical bridge to break up the verse/chorus structure and add more depth to the story line___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Lyric_X_ First line makes me want to hear more__ Engaging__ Cohesive_X_ Good use of imagery (in chorus!)_X_ Rhymes well_X_ Communicates emotion to listener_X_ Lacks focus__ Unique_X_ Too abstract_X_ I don't understand it__ Too predictable__ Too many cliches__ Awkward phrasing__ Vocal does not help to sell song_X_ Vocal does help to sell songLyrical Comments:Lyrics are the weakest point of the song. The verse lyrics are way too abstract. For example, there is no character development for "Suzanne", and who are "they" who put an end to her?... You "just can't remember" who to send it to? Don't you mean you don't know where to send it? And the "sweet dreams in flying machines" thing... where did that come from? Imagery is too abstract. I can't tell what you are talking about and relate to these words._________________________________________Title_x_ Good title__ So-So title__ Cant determine title by listening__ Could appear in a more strategic place__ Doesn't repeat enough__ Repeats too oftenTitle Comments:___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________OVERALL COMMENTSJames, I wish I could forward this one because it has a killer chorus. You need to develop your lyrical skills so that there is a balance when using imagery. Stay away from things that are too deeply personal if you want a hit._________________________________________Now give a rating 1 to 10, 1 being the worst, 10 being the best:_9_ Music_5_ Lyrics_5_ Marketability_8_ Arrangement_9_ Production_9_ EngineeringNOW. Would you walk this into a label credibility on this music? __ YES_X NONOW. Give a reason why did or didn't forward this:Needs lyrical development__________________________________________________________________________________Reviewer # 86.99Lyrics for reference:Just yesterday morning, they let me know you were gone. Suzanne, the plans they made put an end to you. I walked out this mornin', and I wrote down this song; I just can't remember who to send it to. Chorus I've seen fire, and I've seen rain. I've seen sunny days that I thought would never end. I've seen lonely times when I could not find a friend, But I always thought that I'd see you again. Won't you look down upon me JesusYou gotta help me make a stand. You just got to see me through another day. My body's achin', and my time is at hand. I won't make it any other way. Been walkin' my mind to an easy time, My back turned towards the sun. Lord knows when the cold wind blows, it'll turn your head around. Well there's hours of time on the telephone line to talk about things to come: Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground.

[edteja]

Yer right Casey. I submitted Fire and Rain for a folk listing and that's exacty what they told me. I'm still waiting to hear back on Hard Rain's Gonna Fall.

[matto]

Hehee, good one. Of course there is a HUGE difference between submitting a song to Nashville and being your own performer...as a performer you have a lot more leeway as long as you can convincingly sell your lyric...which Mr Taylor certainly does...Nor would this really qualify as country, so it's off target anyway for your basic Nashville listing. Not really "hard to classify" though...don't they call this stuff "folk"?

[Casey H]

Hey MattoYeah, I prefaced my post mentioning the difference between singer-songwriters and songwriters... And I really meant the "Nashville standard", not necessarily pitching to Nashville... I should have made that clearer... But I do wonder if that is the TAXI review JT would have gotten??? Just a moment not to take ourselves too seriously... Casey

[Casey H]

Quote:...Not really "hard to classify" though...don't they call this stuff "folk"? Did they call this type of song "folk" back in '71 ? Probably, but what sucks is I remember when this album came out! I have the original vinyl!! Jeeeeees... I am old! Casey

[matto]

Quote:Did they call this type of song "folk" back in '71 ? Probably, but what sucks is I remember when this album came out! I have the original vinyl!! Jeeeeees... I am old! CaseyLol I was in Kindergarten in '71 so I really don't remember what they called it back then

[bc]

"Fire and Rain" was a pop tune at that time. Folk was in transition somewhere between "Puff the Magic Dragon" and "The Times They Are A-Changin." And boy were they! As a singer/songwriter, Taylor would still have little problem getting a record deal today. IMObest,bc

[jlboggie]

Fire and Rain was the first 45 RPM single I bought - summer of '70, age 13, somewhere in Small Town Iowa. IMO, it comes down to the right song for the right time. F&R created a certain atmosphere that perfectly fit those laid back introspective days. I doubt JT would write something like it today - like us all, he's evolved and changed through the years as has his audience. But, like all great songs, it brings back that feeling every time I hear it. Gotta wonder if a TAXI reviewer would 'get' that.

[edteja]

But, like all great songs, it brings back that feeling every time I hear it. Gotta wonder if a TAXI reviewer would 'get' that.I sometimes wonder about this kind of thing. You often hear from critiques (well, I often hear) that a song isn't current sounding. Sometimes that is because I haven't done my homework; sometimes it is because the older vibe is what seems right for the tune. But it seems that (except for obvious listings of "60's sound" or whatever) that the screeners are trained (or instinctively) reject those, despite the fact that older sounds come back. On another thread it was mentioned that some of AC stuff is moving toward folk. Maybe JT can write some songs for the current AC artists and help them out. This isn't a complaint about the screeners, merely an observation that they might not be sensitive to opportunities for using older sounds as part of the pallette in contemporary music.

[Casey H]

Interesting...My main "mostly humorous, partly not" thought had to do with the lyrics to the song. I think, other than as singer-songwriter material, the song might not get a forward today and get those types of comments on the lyrics. That may be more of a commentary on the music world today than on TAXI. BTW, 2 things of note:(1) Unknown songwriters should always follow all the songwriting "rules".(2) A killer hook can sometimes override #1. Casey