Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

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Cameloide
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Re: Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

Post by Cameloide » Thu May 27, 2021 8:23 pm

I think most great writers could adapt to the sync world if they wanted. They probably just never really had the urge, and it was a little more associated with "selling out" back then. I can't help but imagine that the guys in Queen thought, "hey we're playing stadiums now, wouldn't it be cool to write something for that setting?" Or seeing the crazy English hooligans singing at the top of their lungs at packed-out soccer stadiums, and thinking..."hmmm....why don't we write a couple of songs for that environment?". And bam..."We Will Rock You" and "We Are The Champions" etc... I doubt they wrote those strictly for artistic pleasure, but I bet it feels good knowing they will continue getting played in thousands of stadiums all over the world probably every day till who knows when.

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Joni Mitchell would not be able to write a new composition to fit a specific listing....
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If Joni Mitchell or Frank Zappa had cared to pursue writing for sync I bet they could've figured it out more easily than most if not all of us. Y'all are talking about 2 of the greatest writers/composer/musicians to ever come out of the Americas. Joni did essentially that on her 5th album. After David Geffen kept prodding her about writing a hit she wrote "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio" which lyrically kinda made fun of the hit writing process all the while becoming her 1st top 40 hit. Now, of course 80 year old Joni Mitchell wouldn't be able to make herself sound like 21 year old Joni Mitchell, so if it was for a contemporary pop brief she would have to hire another vocalist.

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John Lennon wrote Come Together specifically for a political ad, but when he was only halfway through, the result didn't fit the 'listing' and knew it would be rejected, so kept the song for artist release instead of advertising release. "Greatest songwriter" failed at writing to a listing.
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I get your point, failing is part of the process, but if this is true he still proved himself capable of writing one of the most marketable ad-friendly songs ever. There's no telling how much sync money that song still generates.

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At least Cobain wrote all of his songs himself, by himself, lyrics, melody, rhythm, and drums, often by taking aspects of progressions and riffs and licks he heard from other bands and applying it in his original songs.
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As far as Cobain, I've kinda got my doubts on that one. I'm sure he would've done fine in the 1 genre he inhabited, but I can't see him really branching out successfully.

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Re: Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

Post by superblonde » Thu May 27, 2021 9:27 pm

Cobain didn't have to branch out. The entire forest and all the forest dwellers living inside it came to him.

I don't think Zappa could have figured out the mainstream sound because he tried to do that and failed. It's not like artists sit around saying "I'm purposely not going to write a hit album this time." Fact is, the songs musicians hate the most, and believe deserve to be thrown in the trash, or only record as a joke-gag demo, often end up as their #1's in their niche genre. Artist-musicians especially academics abhor studying success. Academics won't touch the top 40 on any chart, won't even go near it, but they'll spend 40 years of their lives studying a dead German's Sunday service hits from 400 years ago and re-play the pieces as cover songs aka "classical concerts."

Mention to any musician that you want to write music/"a song" which sells well, and watch them fly off the handle about "sales don't mean anything". In fact I re-proved this for the millionth time today on a musician group call. Doing art "to spec" seems both a psychological hurdle and a skill hurdle.

Joni's songs would be rejected today with "sounds dated." She wasn't able to and couldn't adapt her style.

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Re: Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

Post by Cameloide » Thu May 27, 2021 11:36 pm

Cobain's ride lasted about a half a decade, like most fads. How many briefs to do you see looking for angsty/grunge now? I just don't think he had the talent/skills to branch out much beyond grunge/punk rock when that dried up, or the mental fortitude to deal with the endless rejection.

Yes Joni's songs written 30-50 years ago would "sound dated" today. My point is simply that if writers/musicians of her and Zappa's level had any desire whatsoever to get into writing for sync they could figure it out. If that's not the case I don't know what business a lower level writer like myself is doing in here thinking I can make it happen. Slash writing a score is kinda proving that point. Talented people can figure out how to do some things out of their wheelhouse. Now could he score the next Star Wars believably? Probably not.

A lot, if not most, of the people on Taxi probably started by just writing whatever they wanted to write hoping one day they would have a large fan base lapping it up and giving them money. Eventually they (we) realize that's not going to happen and start thinking maybe writing music to service other people's needs who are willing and able to pay is more realistic and still more enjoyable than selling insurance.

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Re: Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

Post by Picardster » Fri May 28, 2021 1:09 am

Cameloide wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 11:36 pm

A lot, if not most, of the people on Taxi probably started by just writing whatever they wanted to write hoping one day they would have a large fan base lapping it up and giving them money. Eventually they (we) realize that's not going to happen and start thinking maybe writing music to service other people's needs who are willing and able to pay is more realistic and still more enjoyable than selling insurance.
Very true, imho.

The core of my hypothetic question was more aiming at the streamlined side of creativity which, imho, has a touch of contradicition in itself. Just a touch, since whole industries need creativeness all the time (product design, advertising, processes a.s.o.)

But is what Cameloide wrote not very common to us-with-the-great-visions? A successful must-colleague who is in sound design uses to say: "Reach for the sky and land in the trees"
which seems to picture the above said.

Our answers are all speculative, for sure. Nobody knows if Zappa, Cobain, Lennon, Slash or others wold have tried that way in here. And one fail in a project doesn't mean that one is not capable of making it in that particular field.

A muso-collegue of mine, who is very successfully producing for TV-shows, even blockbusters, had failed in here a couple of years ago, as he told me. He never could acquire any business.

So guys, if it doesn't happen to you here, maybe it's simply the wrong path to go.

When people keep talking about the fact that Taxi is a numbers game, then this is not much different from a lottery - with a precheck of the lottery tickets (our submitted tracks) ;-)

A very smart business-model, that admittedly has an added value for all participants. More for the ones, less for the others ;-)

I, for one, still like it since I've learned a lot. But I'm not sure about my chances here. Since I'm not one of the lucky ones at lotteries. Although I've had a good chunk of forwards yet :-)

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Re: Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

Post by superblonde » Fri May 28, 2021 1:21 am

Severely overestimating Joni Mitchell's abilities for who knows what reasons. She could not even tune her own guitars or explain what the tuning was. Her vocals have one tone, and one tone only, the Joni tone. That is not 'versatile'.

You know who could do it is John Mayer. A less-authentic musician never walked the earth. He writes to a formula and plays others' licks. No problem selling-out there.
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Re: Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

Post by Picardster » Fri May 28, 2021 1:35 am

superblonde wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 1:21 am

You know who could do it is John Mayer. A less-authentic musician never walked the earth. He writes to a formula and plays others' licks. No problem selling-out there.
Also I don't know if there are less-authentic musicians on the face of Mother Earth, and although I see he is a good musician, I just can't find anything by him that touches me....insofar - approved.

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Re: Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

Post by Kolstad » Fri May 28, 2021 1:46 am

No need for guessing on this, you can look it up on Tunefind https://www.tunefind.com/artist/nirvana . They are listed with 52 songs, sync'ed in 87 productions. Cobain/ Nirvana have been used in the Batman soundtrack, Guitar Hero and whatnot. Highly sought after!
Big names like that brings much more than music to the projects, they bring an audience and a brand and whatnot.

I'm also pretty sure some of the music supers on some of those productions runs Taxi listings from time to time. Nirvana would have a manager, though, so I don't think they would use Taxi personally. But down the line, who knows..
Last edited by Kolstad on Fri May 28, 2021 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

Post by Patrick » Fri May 28, 2021 8:29 am

Ann Murray had a stalker, so I imagine anything is possible in the music industry.
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Re: Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

Post by Cameloide » Fri May 28, 2021 10:51 am

superblonde wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 1:21 am
Severely overestimating Joni Mitchell's abilities for who knows what reasons. She could not even tune her own guitars or explain what the tuning was. Her vocals have one tone, and one tone only, the Joni tone. That is not 'versatile'.
The reason is simple I've listened to her music. Anybody that can lock in harmonies like she did has to have a phenomenal ear. The "Joni tone"? You mean she had what most artist hope to one day find, a unique voice/identity? Yeah she did, from the very beginning.

So the artist most associated with alternate tunings (having used or come up with 51 of them) couldn't tune her guitar? That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. You must've meant Cobain. Here's her talking about it in guitar magazine interview -

“Sometimes I’ll tune to some piece of music and find [an open tuning] that way, sometimes I just find one going from one to another, and sometimes I’ll tune to the environment. Like ‘The Magdalene Laundries’ [from Turbulent Indigo; the tuning is B F# B E A E]: I tuned to the day in a certain place, taking the pitch of birdsongs and the general frequency sitting on a rock in that landscape.”

She's often explained or talked about music and tunings in some of the deepest and most informative ways I've ever heard.

For those of you who don't know who she is let this be your introduction. She wrote this masterpiece in her early 20's but this is a performance from her later years - https://youtu.be/tKQSlH-LLTQ

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Re: Would Kurt Cobain have made a deal in here?

Post by Patrick » Fri May 28, 2021 11:02 am

And Zappa was a coward. He never had the guts to produce anything of a serious nature. He pretty much admitted this on his deathbed.
Bad art can make you laugh
Good art can make you think
Great art can destroy you

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