19 forwards, no $$

[conniption]

Ok, we have been forwarded 19 times and we got only one call for a no payment up front licensing deal, so what. After reading the posts, I guess 19 forwards and counting is doing ok. What I want to know is how to turn these forwards in to dollars. So far Taxi has a long way to go to pay for itself. If I just wanted good reviews, I would just ask mom what she thinks. I would love to be able to follow up on the forwards, but Taxi does not let that happen. Maybe they need to set up a "Follow Up" service or something. I want to know what is happening with the forwards and who is getting the call back, if anyone. I want to know if anyone else here has had similar results and if anyone has made money above and beyond the cost of Taxi. Any input would be much appreciated. Steve

[davewalton]

Quote:Ok, we have been forwarded 19 times and we got only one call for a no payment up front licensing deal, so what. After reading the posts, I guess 19 forwards and counting is doing ok. What I want to know is how to turn these forwards in to dollars. So far Taxi has a long way to go to pay for itself. If I just wanted good reviews, I would just ask mom what she thinks. I would love to be able to follow up on the forwards, but Taxi does not let that happen. Maybe they need to set up a "Follow Up" service or something. I want to know what is happening with the forwards and who is getting the call back, if anyone. I want to know if anyone else here has had similar results and if anyone has made money above and beyond the cost of Taxi. Any input would be much appreciated. SteveNineteen... that's hardly breaking a sweat. If you're selling copiers, try making only 19 sales calls, or selling cars and only talking to 19 customers. If 19 was all it took... can you imagine how EASY it would be for just about anyone to make a living with music? Part of the value of Taxi and the forum (I'm speaking for myself here) is that I got a "wake up call" regarding the reality of business. It's tough, it takes persistance and LOTS of patience. RLD just posted his experience where he signed a paid library deal ONE YEAR after his forward. My first Taxi deal was like that too. I had actually quit Taxi at the time my deal came through. I rejoined and later got a deal that now has my music placed into network television every week, almost daily. It scares the hell out of me when I think that may never have happened because I quit Taxi too soon. Regarding "following up". Had RLD "followed up" three months ago, what would have been the result? It would have been "haven't gotten to it yet". Following up is pointless because they either (a) haven't decided, or (b) decided but not in your favor. There's nothing to follow up on as far as pestering them about previous submissions. If they want your music you won't be able to get rid of them. If not, you won't be able to "follow up" and talk them into it. By the tone of the comment, I'm guessing you turned down the "no payment licensing deal"? If not then good for you. Outside of Taxi, many of my best paying projects came about because of the credit I received on a project that paid little or nothing. It's not always what a project is that's important, it's what it might lead to. "I could have had a credit but I turned it down" never really works well for demonstrating experience. BTW, anything that makes it's way to television pays performance royalties. So low or no-pay upfront deals can turn profitable if and when placed into television, into the right show or setting. Matto has some music in a film called "Harold and Krumar Go To White Castle", during a scene where they're smoking pot with a Cheetah (I'm not making this up). The film didn't win any academy awards that I know of and I don't know anything about his licensing fee but the Harold and Krumar move has aired on various TV and cable channels over and over and over again. Performance royalties pay everytime the show airs. It's a good deal so consider the possibilities of what could happen tomorrow before turning down a deal that, today, doesn't look so good. I think you have to take a closer look and understand what Taxi does. They simply introduce your music to people who are looking for that kind of music, doing that through the listing and screening process. Once it leaves Taxi's office, it's the company that ran the listing that decides "deal or no deal". I introduce you to my wife's friend. You want to get married but she doesn't... that's MY fault as the guy that made the introduction??? Many, many people here in the forum have had their music introduced to some very impressive labels, publishers, and libraries through Taxi. Taxi does what they say they do and, as a result, there's LOTS of great deals that happen, a fair number to existing forum members.The fact that you've received 19 forwards tells me that you're a very good musician/composer/band or whatever musical form you take. I have a theory (and I think it's valid) that most musicians don't make it, not because of a lack of talent, but because of a lack of either understanding or willingness to understand the nature of the business or at least be able to identify a "red flag". Not getting a deal after only submitting 19 demos... definitely not a red flag.Inside our outside of Taxi... don't give up before things have had a chance to happen (and sometimes that takes a while). Develop a five-year plan and don't give up before then... you'll have given up too soon. HTH,Dave

[sgs4u]

conniption : a fit of rage, hysteria, or alarm <went into conniptions> No please, don't fly off into a fit of rage! It's a bummer that you haven't gotten any cash results yet. I have about 40 forwards thus far (in a year and a half of submitting). 1 deal has happened for me tho, and it was very rewarding! It covered almost all my expenses. If Taxi hasn't paid for itself yet, according to you, then maybe you need to figure out why. Taxi calls itself the second best way to get your music heard. Have you tried the best way yet? If you choose to vent your frustrations on this forum and freak out, you still won't likely help you get the results you want. Who wants to help a jerk - any volunteers? However, if you decide that you want to "play nice," you'll get a ton of help, understanding and constructive criticism, from these people. Maybe you haven't yet figured out how everything works, and if or how your short-term expectations, might be unrealistic. And yes, there are a lot of people who have made more money from Taxi, then the expenses they've incurred. Steve from Canada.Quote:Ok, we have been forwarded 19 times and we got only one call for a no payment up front licensing deal, so what. After reading the posts, I guess 19 forwards and counting is doing ok. What I want to know is how to turn these forwards in to dollars. So far Taxi has a long way to go to pay for itself. If I just wanted good reviews, I would just ask mom what she thinks. I would love to be able to follow up on the forwards, but Taxi does not let that happen. Maybe they need to set up a "Follow Up" service or something. I want to know what is happening with the forwards and who is getting the call back, if anyone. I want to know if anyone else here has had similar results and if anyone has made money above and beyond the cost of Taxi. Any input would be much appreciated. Steve

[davewalton]

Quote:for perspective: i've had 60+ forwards over about nearly two years, with only two deal offers (one very, very bad library and one indie show w/no money); in that same time i've done 30+ paying deals (with good upfront master/synch fees) on my own. some tracks that have not made it through the taxi screeners have been very, very successful. elsewhere. (not complaining, just stating.)I don't know how many forwards... probably 60+. Two deals, one with a library that placed music into a show that generated around 60 airings on cable television. Another where I write music for a daytime TV show... music airing every week, almost every day on network television. Admittedly that's a "cream of the crop" thing and not "ordinary" but that's why I'm here. At least four other guys on this forum alone with that same deal.Don't ask Gitarrero about deals in just his first year if you're wanting "Taxi doesn't work" examples.

[davewalton]

Quote: i think taxi is very good for people who compose music specifically for background; not so good for people doing music as artists or bands.I read, saw, heard somewhere that Fox Sports placed over 1 million tracks of music last year in all of the shows, etc that it does. That's just one (admittedly rather large) entity. Add in all the other opportunities for placement in cable and network television, films, etc. That's a LOT of slots. MillionsNow consider artists, bands, etc looking for a record deal... how many slots are available for that? Certainly not millions. Maybe just a couple from each label? It's not a "Taxi thing". Statistically it's MUCH easier to get a background music placement on TV than be #1 on Billboard. Show me any place that says through them it's easier to get a record deal than getting a background music placement through Taxi... and I'll RUN, not walk, the other way. It's almost easier to be in a plane crash than it is to get a REAL record deal... not surprising that any place has more opportunities for film/tv placement than for record deals. Regarding these deals, there's a good number of these high-end listings through Taxi. They're a one in ten-billion shot but Taxi gets listings from all the major labels, for Country, Pop, R&B, Rap, etc. You get forwarded, your music gets sent to the decision maker's desk at a major label (because he/she asked for it). How much more of an opportunity do you want or do you have outside of Taxi? Try sending a blind demo to Sony BMG and see how far it gets.

[jameii]

Hey Dave I didn't think you seemed ungrateful or angry...I could see how you would wonder the things you asked in your post.I'm a new member since around November and I"ve had 7 forwards (some of those were for more than one song) and I think 2 were Artist forwards. EAch time it happens I just really dig the fact that I KNOW somewhere out there my music is being heard. I didn't have that chance..that SAME chance before Taxi made the listing and selected my song.I agree that there are ways to put yourself out there other than this...but it's kind of like shopping I guess..if you goto one store you can get what you need but if you goto 2 stores you might find there are better things at store 2 and for better prices, etc. That's kind of how I see Taxi..it's another step in the right direction.I know that when you get a forward you may never hear about it again...I jsut stay positive and hope that eventually all these "seeds" will flourish in SOME way!REmember.....it only takes ONE song to hit to "make" you....Here's to that one song my friend!!!Best of luck...and we are glad you are here!Jamie

[davewalton]

Quote:Hey Dave I didn't think you seemed ungrateful or angry...I think that was Steve... I'm grateful and happy.

[jameii]

LOL..OOPS!!!!! Sorry Dave YES!!! I meant Steve My bad!

[davewalton]

Quote:in case dave misinterpreted, i was stating from the perspective from one who sell songs written for music to be released and sold on a cd that can be purchased, and that "stands on it's own" separate from a visual image... it does seem, from my perspective, that the people getting the payback on their taxi investment are the ones who are writing specifically for tv placements (matt, dave, gitarerro, etc), as opposed to those placing songs written for their artist-release albumsYep, we agree there. I'm just saying that it's universally true because there are just more opportunities for $$$ via film/tv than there are real opportunities to make $$$ selling CD's. I don't see it being a "Taxi thing".Stepping back from all this, let me throw out my philosophy (pronounced "FILL-o-SOFF-e" around here ). If I'm an alt-rock group wanting to make money selling music via CD's (artist-released, through indie or major labels, whatever), I submit to Taxi listings similar to this...Quote:ALTERNATIVE ROCK/AAA BAND a la Flaming Lips, Arcade Fire, Polyphonic Spree, etc. is sought after by the General Manager of a very successful Independent label with major label distribution. Your overall vibe should be very unique, yet commercially appealing and viable. Emphasis is placed on commercial potential, excellent live performance abilities, established fan base, Internet presence and work ethic -- you MUST be a hardworking, touring band in order to be considered. So, over time, I get forwarded to 60+ companies like these who are actively seeking bands like me. 60+ times, my CD has landed on the desk of a decision maker and SOMEBODY is getting a deal. So far it hasn't been me. The label's decision to go with one of the other of the thousands of groups that landed on his desk through Taxi, through agents, through attorneys, through "insiders" at the label. What does his/her decision to sign someone else have to do with Taxi? So I have a definite source for listings like the one above. They're DEFINITELY looking to sign a deal with a group, they're ACTIVELY seeking submissions and SOMEBODY is going to get a deal.Why would I drop Taxi, thereby making a conscious decision NOT to send anything to these listings when I know specifically that they're looking for groups like me? Whether you're targeting a record deal like you or simply a song in the background of an episode of Monk like me, I don't get the concept of specifically ignoring a valid source that sends my music to those decision makers. That's in addition to whatever I dig up on my own. Regarding film/tv stuff... that can lead to the end result you're looking for. Bands like The Plain White T's, Zero 7 (Sia Furler) got a big bump when they did music either as a theme (like "Our Time Now" for "Greek") or as a prominent song in a show (like "Breathe Me" for "Six Feet Under"). Some shows even have websites dedicated to the artists they use on the various episodes.Anyway, that's my FILL-o-SOFF-e. Dave

[slideboardouts]

Quote: I find Taxi's critiques valuable and I still love a forward, but at what cost? I am running a business here and in 18 months of Taxi I have yet to see a return. Really, in the grand scheme of things 18 months is a drop in the bucket when you are talking about starting and running a business and ROI. Next time you go to your doctor for a check-up ask him/her if they were getting any income from treating patients 18 months after high school. If they are honest, he/she will probably say something like... "no...first I got a 4 year degree, then I spent 4 years in med school, then I had to work for 3 years in a hospital. Finally I opened up my own practice and that first year was really rough. Things started coming around by year two and my practice has been growing ever since."So, thats 8 years of school making no money and 3 years working in a hospital before he/she could even start their own business. If you are getting forwards, chances are you will sign some kind of a deal through TAXI and collect money at about the same time or before somebody going in to business as a doctor.I know it sucks to be busting your butt and spending your money trying to get your music business going. You just have to keep reminding yourself that in reality, most new businesses in every field take a while to get moving.I think that TAXI is an excellent resource for your business, but it certainly shouldn't be the only one. For example, most businesses I know of don't just have a pone book ad to take care of their marketing. They have a phone book ad, an ad in the newspaper, a webpage, etc. They will get a couple of customers from each that alone would be fairly insignificant but combined...well...thats what keeps the doors open and the lights on -Steve