3 returns for 'instrumental performance'

[Salty]

Thanks a bunch Rob; Ive read your feedback from mine and others and it is so often helpful no matter what genre it is.
And really really I value what people say here even when its tough to hear.

Im gonna take a look at what I can do make the violins a bit softer there- thats a big point for me to get on top of; thinkin to try the adjusting what I did with the expression first- and then maybe try the EQ settings i used.

As far as listings go- my thinking is that its important to be accurate about why things are being returned- if different screeners use different criteria for the boxes being checked then imo there are going to be a lot more red herrings being thrown out there than there already are- that can have a detremental effect.

To a degree Mazz is right about the ego thing being tied to the music- so part of it is on us, but part of it has to be thrown back at the screeners to be accurate- better to be not right for a listing than to imply that there is a problem with a performance unless there are things that need to be fixed; and perhaps a check box for following up with a custom screening would help on a yes/no listing.
Also some concern that its been taking 30 days or so to listen to yes/no stuff- and then the we get only check marks- think thats more appropriate for a 10 day turnaround.

Thanks people for chiming in- and if you hear something that I should get on fixing- PLEASE keep saying it.

PS: Mazz Id love to know some thoughts on how to be emotionally invested in the music but maybe not in the outcomes (as I think you are sorta implying?) b/c I dont think a person can write great music w/out the ego being involved?

[Cruciform]

and perhaps a check box for following up with a custom screening would help on a yes/no listing.

HTH, Salty. On this point, it's easy to order a custom critique and request the screener from the other listing. I did it once after a Y/N return. There should be no problem getting that person unless they're absolutely snowed under or away. But FWIW, I've always learned more from other forum members than screeners.

[Salty]

yeah-
I know its pretty easy to request the longer critique- was thinking it to be more a matter from the screeners end-
as in if they had a bunch to explain bout something they heard, but couldnt do it on the yes/no thing because it required more time effort and analysis.

But no question, so far Ive gotten a lot more value from the forum stuff.

[mazz]

Salty,

From other things I've read here straight from Taxi, many times with Y/N listings the screener is from the client's office or even the client themselves and are not trained to give critiques.

A few years ago members voted on whether or not to include "mini critiques" on Y/N listings. I voted against them because I thought it would end up being more confusing than a simple Yes or No. I was in the minority. I prefer a thumbs up or thumbs down on Y/N listings, it reflects the real world, IMO. If one wants a critique, pay for one or only submit to critiqued listings. I realize there's a lot of learning in the critiques and feedback and yet I'd rather have more opportunities to submit than have to wait for critiqued listings to come through to submit.

That being said: I truly believe that we need to put our full emotion, passion and yes, ego into the composing of our music. That's what keeps us going. And I truly believe that after we have completed our composition, we need to move the composer out of the way and put on the skin of the marketer. Composing and pitching are two completely different skill sets.

I haven't listened to your compositions for this listing, but it's possible that they are just fine for a certain pitch but were completely or partially wrong for this specific pitch. The composer that just put their full emotional energy and passion into making the piece the best it can be is pretty let down and perceives the return as some kind of rejection. The marketer would say, OK I'm going to learn from this experience by stepping back and surveying what I submitted and try to figure out how to better target what I am submitting for future pitches.

In order to do that, you have to separate the product from the process that created it. If you open a retail store selling shirts that you created and designed and called it "The World's Most Awesome Shirts Sold Here" and it was on a busy street in some city, you'd get a lot of walk in traffic. But if you expect that everyone that walked into the store would buy a shirt, then you will be very disappointed within the first 30 minutes of opening the doors! It's just a fact of life that not everyone will like or need what you make.

As a business person, you need to figure out how to attract the people who will like your product. If no one is buying your shirts then maybe your shirts are wrong for the climate, the store is open the wrong hours for the clientele, it might take several months for word to get around, etc., etc., If you get discouraged because you don't understand why everyone doesn't see how great your awesome shirts are that you slaved over, then you may be in the wrong business!!

I know it stings to get a return and that the Y/N checkboxes are vague. I think at that point then you have a choice as to how to deal with it. It's natural to disagree but it takes effort to step back, take a deep breath and put on the business hat and take a cold hard look at your product. That's why it's helpful to learn how to listen to others' music, as Rob says, because it will really help you improve your own.

Keep at it, the only things you have control of in this business are your product, your attitude, and your ability to pitch your product. Once it's in the hands of the potential client, you are out of the picture. If they want your music, they will contact you. It's completely up to them at that point.

Cheers,

Mazz

[Salty]

Im reading this on the late end of a gig- but very well put.

Was talking with a friend of mine tonight- and Im sure this goes under one of the categories you laid out- but Im concerned by the lack of melody being both written and sought after in many types of music- with the exception being stuff like folk and singer/songwriter.

okay, its stupid late for me so im prolly not overly coherent.

[mazz]

Remember that our music, if we are going for film/TV placements, is going to be talked over 98% of the time, even if it's vocal songs. The trick is to have melodic interest without calling undue attention to the music, because if the audience suddenly starts listening to the music, then that means they aren't listening to the talking, which is not a good thing in the world of TV/Film.

As composers we tend to think it's about the music, but to a producer of a show, music is one element in a production that includes acting, lighting, costumes, makeup, sets, lawyers, studio bosses, money and on and on. We are a small but important component to a larger work. The music is one layer. If the music stands too much on it's own, it's not usable. That aesthetic informs our mixing process as welll!

In essence, we are the composing equivalent of a band that plays cocktail parties where mingling and talking are the main focus of the evening for the guests. The creative part of our job is how to make the music enhance the mood without distracting the guests or making them have to talk too loudly to each other. There's no quicker way to empty a room than to play a gig like that and be too loud or too busy with virtuosic endless soloing. Pretty soon everyone is on the balcony or in the next room and the musicians are playing for themselves. Been there, done that.

If you want to get placements, you need to figure out how to write music that is placeable. LIsten to the music that is being placed by watching TV shows. You'll be surprised at how simple and sparse it is. Having composing chops is a blessing and a curse. Part of becoming a successful film/tv composer, I'm finding, is how to use those chops tastefully. That's the real creative challenge we face, IMO, and only comes from experience and openness to learning how to do it despite what our training might be pointing us to do. That's the real world stuff.

OK, off to bed.

Mazz

[michael11]

Remember that our music, if we are going for film/TV placements, is going to be talked over 98% of the time, even if it's vocal songs. The trick is to have melodic interest without calling undue attention to the music, because if the audience suddenly starts listening to the music, then that means they aren't listening to the talking, which is not a good thing in the world of TV/Film.

As composers we tend to think it's about the music, but to a producer of a show, music is one element in a production that includes acting, lighting, costumes, makeup, sets, lawyers, studio bosses, money and on and on. We are a small but important component to a larger work. The music is one layer. If the music stands too much on it's own, it's not usable. That aesthetic informs our mixing process as welll!

In essence, we are the composing equivalent of a band that plays cocktail parties where mingling and talking are the main focus of the evening for the guests. The creative part of our job is how to make the music enhance the mood without distracting the guests or making them have to talk too loudly to each other. There's no quicker way to empty a room than to play a gig like that and be too loud or too busy with virtuosic endless soloing. Pretty soon everyone is on the balcony or in the next room and the musicians are playing for themselves. Been there, done that.

If you want to get placements, you need to figure out how to write music that is placeable. LIsten to the music that is being placed by watching TV shows. You'll be surprised at how simple and sparse it is. Having composing chops is a blessing and a curse. Part of becoming a successful film/tv composer, I'm finding, is how to use those chops tastefully. That's the real creative challenge we face, IMO, and only comes from experience and openness to learning how to do it despite what our training might be pointing us to do. That's the real world stuff.

OK, off to bed.

Mazz

I don't think I have ever seen more useful and helpful advice on this particular subject.

I'm going to copy it,print it and stick it on the wall.

Thank you Mazz.

Mick.

[Russell Landwehr]

Remember that our music, if we are going for film/TV placements, is going to be talked over 98% of the time, even if it's vocal songs. The trick is to have melodic interest without calling undue attention to the music, because if the audience suddenly starts listening to the music, then that means they aren't listening to the talking, which is not a good thing in the world of TV/Film.

As composers we tend to think it's about the music, but to a producer of a show, music is one element in a production that includes acting, lighting, costumes, makeup, sets, lawyers, studio bosses, money and on and on. We are a small but important component to a larger work. The music is one layer. If the music stands too much on it's own, it's not usable. That aesthetic informs our mixing process as welll!

In essence, we are the composing equivalent of a band that plays cocktail parties where mingling and talking are the main focus of the evening for the guests. The creative part of our job is how to make the music enhance the mood without distracting the guests or making them have to talk too loudly to each other. There's no quicker way to empty a room than to play a gig like that and be too loud or too busy with virtuosic endless soloing. Pretty soon everyone is on the balcony or in the next room and the musicians are playing for themselves. Been there, done that.

If you want to get placements, you need to figure out how to write music that is placeable. LIsten to the music that is being placed by watching TV shows. You'll be surprised at how simple and sparse it is. Having composing chops is a blessing and a curse. Part of becoming a successful film/tv composer, I'm finding, is how to use those chops tastefully. That's the real creative challenge we face, IMO, and only comes from experience and openness to learning how to do it despite what our training might be pointing us to do. That's the real world stuff.

OK, off to bed.

Mazz

I don't think I have ever seen more useful and helpful advice on this particular subject.

I'm going to copy it,print it and stick it on the wall.

Thank you Mazz.

Mick.

+1

Luminously stated, Mazz. You've probably said it before somewhere else... Wish I would have seen it a couple years ago.

Piecing this together and learning this from the Experienced Taxi Forum Members and Rally Classes and Rally Mentors made a big difference in the way I go about composition. No longer do I go for ABACAB (or a variation thereof.) Now I'm really making a "busy" Cue if I have a "B" section. And someone here said that a strong "melody" isn't really "Melody." At least not the way we think of it.

rl

[Casey H]

I got the big slap down 6 for 6 returned on this one. Several had the "instrumental peformance" box ticked. The way I deal with it is to append each tick box with the words "not right for this listing"

Most of what I submitted has already been signed so I know the pieces are right for other opps. It's simply the way the business works. To take it personally is simply a sign that one hasn't fully removed their ego from their craft. My hand is raised. Back to the studio.

Yup.... "Not right for this listing" is the only way to see it. It's all part of the industry. Expecting everything to be consistent from application to application or even ear to ear and make perfect, neat sense all the time will drive you crazy.

I'm sure everyone has seen similar things on the outside as well. One library says a track is "not a fit for our catalog" while another calls it "great" and swoops it up.

This must have been one heckuva high bar listing based on the very talented folks I see saying they had all returns.

Best,
Casey

PS Kudos to some of the direct to sup screeners lately who, on Y/N listings, often put it a sentence about why it doesn't fit when returned! We can't expect this all the time but I've seen more of this lately and really appreciate it!

[Salty]

LMAO- b/c Ive played many a cocktail style gig- the good news with those is that if you really want to play music there- and I say that because my mindset is to try and never phone in the music- you just play well, but quietly

From the real world practical standpoint of getting work and having music used, Ive got to agree with you, thats the way it is.

But from a what does this say about our society standpoint, I go the opposite way.

Now its early, I no longer have an excuse for being incoherent.