A La This, A La That

[sevenworlds]

Quote:Hmm, not sure how and why exactly I got dragged into this and why I'm being insulted here, when it seems rather obvious that you guys have completely different goals:Sorry matto, it wasn't meant personally, I was poking fun at the description of your music, not the music itself, which I think I've only heard once. Couldn't resist Quote:Beatles in a box:Predominant use of open fifth harmonies. (Fairly unusual for a pop act at the time.)Bass parts are normally fairly busy tuba-style lines that cling to inner voices just as much as they do the root.Chromatic scales and melodies abound. They pretty much popularized this sort of chord sequence and it's widely and easily recognized as a "Beatlesy" thing. (See Lucy in the Sky, Dear Prudence or countless others.)Liverpudlian accents. But any remotely Brit type accent will do in a pinch!Ringo's patented <ba-da-bum-bum-ba-da> drum fill.Rickenbacker guitars or anything that goes jingle jangle.For later style, you can't go wrong with a mellotron. For earlier stuff, try a harmonica.Ahhh, so that's the recipe!I must try putting all those ingredients in a pot and heating gently... with a pinch of salt, of course. Quote:Just because you write in many different genres doesn't mean the end result has to be formulaic or generic, it's hopefully still full of your artistic personality.Just because you think you're a great artist and are "expressing your innermost feelings" doesn't mean that a) you're doing a good job at it and b) the end result can't be generic sounding, or even worse, just plain horrible . We've all heard too many examples of that .Writing in different genres isn't the problem - it should be encouraged. It's when the word 'genre' means the most formulaic, common-denominator form of that musical style that the music suffers. How can you put any of your personality into it when you're being restricted like that?When you talk of the genre Reggae the first person most people think of is Bob Marley. Funny that, because what he was doing back in the 70s was incorporating other styles into his reggae and so it wasn't pure reggae and he was criticised in some quarters because of this. Yet his music has come to define the term 'reggae' in this day and age. Hence, modern reggae is quite diverse because of him.The Beatles done a similar thing in the 60s but took it further so it seems absurd that they broke barriers down and now people want to put the very music that did this into some sort of box.I agree that just because you write as an artist, expressing yourself honestly, doesn't mean you will automatically be great. But you will offer something at least vaguely interesting because it will be unique to you. It might sound a bit like this and a bit like that but if you're doing it honestly it will mainly sound like you. That's surely always got to be of more value than sticking strictly to what some record exec defines as a genre.

[davewalton]

Quote:Hmm, not sure how and why exactly I got dragged into this and why I'm being insulted here, when it seems rather obvious that you guys have completely different goals:Hi Matt,I probably didn't do a very good job of explaining myself on this but the paragraph following the one you referenced was where I wanted to make a point:==========================What I realized at some point is that Matt is successful because his music is the best representation of whatever style is being asked for. His demo CD doesn't have diluted, cross-genre music that can't be defined. It's the music you could play in a music appreciation class to demonstrate pure, undiluted examples of different styles like Salsa, Zydeco, etc. He simply gives the best representation of each style, pure and straight forward. ==========================What I was trying to get across is that from my perspective, one of the reasons you are successful is that you do such a good job at packaging each genre you do and that you don't have a "hey, man... don't tell me what to do 'cause I do my own thing" attitude. I may have missed the whole point but Sevenworlds was complaining that Taxi "encourages these limitations and barriers in music". I was trying to say that satisfying a client (or a producer or a record company or a Taxi listing) isn't a limitation or a barrier but a reality. I threw your name in because I wanted to make the point that your ability to capture the needs of the client through your music is part and parcel being successful and has nothing to do with being or not being "creative". I don't know. Sometimes I get a little crazy when the basic rules are known in advance (the Taxi listings) and then people "do their own thing" and don't get forwards and deals. That's fine but then to say that this is Taxi's doing...Oh well.DavePSQuote:Is this just your polite way of saying "generic" and "formulaic", perhaps?This "interpretation" is as far on the opposite end of the scale as you can get as far as what I was saying.No, it was my way of saying that it was me who didn't "get it" at the time in reference to Matt's demo CD.

[mani]

Quote:Ahhh, so that's the recipe!I must try putting all those ingredients in a pot and heating gently... with a pinch of salt, of course. You asked what would represent the Beatles. I was just answering that request. Does it mean I have a reductionist view of music? Not at all. But, if necessary, anything can be broken down no matter how 'inspired' it might be.Btw, your mileage may vary with that recipe! Quote:When you talk of the genre Reggae the first person most people think of is Bob Marley. Funny that, because what he was doing back in the 70s was incorporating other styles into his reggae and so it wasn't pure reggae and he was criticised in some quarters because of this. Yet his music has come to define the term 'reggae' in this day and age. Hence, modern reggae is quite diverse because of him.I'm sorry, but if you tried to run this by a genuine reggae buff, he'd laugh at you. All the 'pop' influences and elements on records like 'Catch A Fire' were added AFTER the fact by session musos in London under the supervision of Chris Blackwell from Island Records.Also, Reggae was already hugely diversified in its own styles before Marley ever even looked at a mic. Quote:I agree that just because you write as an artist, expressing yourself honestly, doesn't mean you will automatically be great. But you will offer something at least vaguely interesting because it will be unique to you. It might sound a bit like this and a bit like that but if you're doing it honestly it will mainly sound like you. That's surely always got to be of more value than sticking strictly to what some record exec defines as a genre.I don't think anyone would argue with this from a human point of view.

[nomiyah]

interesting thread.having been a professional musician most of my life, i've experienced the difference between art and business. i have done everything from top 40 to reggae to get paid.but all along i have written songs to please myself. i'm glad i ignored everyone and developed my own style because i like to listen to it. at the same time, trying to make a living requires a more flexible way of thinking. few people do exactly what they want to do at work. they do what they have to do.i remember standing on stage one night looking out at the busy bar, suddenly i realized why i was there. i was booked to sell alcohol, not because i am an artist. it was an upsetting thought but i adapted. and sometimes i have succeeded in art and business at the same time and that's the greatest.nomi

[sevenworlds]

Quote:I'm sorry, but if you tried to run this by a genuine reggae buff, he'd laugh at you. All the 'pop' influences and elements on records like 'Catch A Fire' were added AFTER the fact by session musos in London under the supervision of Chris Blackwell from Island Records.Also, Reggae was already hugely diversified in its own styles before Marley ever even looked at a mic. I was aware of how 'Catch A Fire' developed. American sessions musos brought in by Blackwell after The Wailers had recorded their pure reggae rhythms in Jamaica, etc... The fact someone like Blackwell (essentially a businessman even though he also produced) had a vision for this music shows how far backwards we've gone. Sure, from his point of view it was a marketing ploy to get rock fans listening but at the end of the day do you think Marley would have went for it if it wasn't also what he wanted?All that matters is the music produced by them was great and still stands up. I'm no reggae buff but I'm well aware reggae was quite diverse at that time with plenty other artists making a worthwhile contribution - in Jamaica. My point was - and I don't see how you can deny this - that Marley brought it to an international audience. It was considered novelty music by those audiences before him. In those days it would be unheard of for a reggae artist to come from Australia or such place. It needed someone to take it and mix it with other elements and yes, some reggae purists aren't happy about that, but at the end of the day does it matter what you call it? These are just labels man created. It's all music - good or bad.If someone like Marley came along today, by the logic of people here defending Taxi, his best chances of making it would be limiting himself to the purest common-denominator reggae - and probably never being heard outside Jamaica.That's where I'm coming from when I say Taxi "encourages these limitations and barriers".I know a lot of Taxi members are here to produce music for film and tv and for other reasons, and I'm coming from a different angle so we'll never see eye to eye, but my initial post was simply to highlight what I feel are flaws in the Taxi system. I raised a question of why they don't give song titles as examples and Matto pointed out that its the clients fault. Fair enough. But if a listing asks for Radiohead or Travis and I submit a song which is one side of what they do I don't expect a patronising critique simply because I didn't realise they meant another angle of their music.People will say you should go for the most commercial sound, the singles, etc but what if they've had soft and heavy singles? The Beatles are the ultimate example. Even their singles are wildly different. And no matter what anyone says, I don't believe it is that simple to "break down" music. You can try and describe it in detail but interpretation can vary from person to person. It's fine just saying "The Beatles" if you're prepared to take anything from "Ob La Di Ob La Da" to "Because" but if you want "Love Me Do" then why not say so!

[davewalton]

Quote:If someone like Marley came along today, by the logic of people here defending Taxi, his best chances of making it would be limiting himself to the purest common-denominator reggae - and probably never being heard outside Jamaica.That's where I'm coming from when I say Taxi "encourages these limitations and barriers".I know a lot of Taxi members are here to produce music for film and tv and for other reasons, and I'm coming from a different angle so we'll never see eye to eye, but my initial post was simply to highlight what I feel are flaws in the Taxi system. I should clarify my position somewhat by saying that what can be done in terms of getting forwarded vs what can be done to get deals outside of Taxi are sometimes two different things. Regardless of why we're here (film deals, record deals), in terms of Taxi, our success is going to first depend on how well we meet the needs of the listing.This listing seems to ask for anything but the general standard:============================An LA-based Independent Label with major distribution is looking for a "groundbreaking, original" ALT. ROCK/HARDCORE BAND that will have a similar impact as did the following trailblazers: At the Drive-In, Queens of the Stone Age, Fugazi, ...Trail of Dead, Refused. ============================While this listing seems to only want the general standard:============================MODERN/ALT. ROCK SONGS [w/ vocals -- no instrumentals] a la Green Day, Social Distortion, the Foo Fighters, etc. are needed by a Major Entertainment Co. for film/TV/commercial placement. ============================Personally, I wouldn't do well with either of these listings, but if these were my bread and butter, I'd be groundbreaking on the first one and very much like the listed artists on the second.I had a recent music library placement with songs that I'm proud of but more along the "standard" rather than "creatively groundbreaking". Here is a link to one of these:30sec snippetwww.DaveWaltonMusic.com/MyMusic/CliffsByTheSea.mp3Not groundbreaking but it's what the library wanted. Once I was "in" I was able to place 15 more songs, some of them where I just did the songs for nothing more than being different and exercising some creative freedom:30sec snippetwww.DaveWaltonMusic.com/MyMusic/SolitudeOfTheOutback.mp3I can tell you that song #2 was a lot more fun to do than song #1, but I don't mind doing things like song #1 if they lead me to more things like song #2.I also wouldn't call this song "commercial" by any means but it's another one I was able to place later because of song #1:www.DaveWaltonMusic.com/MyMusic/Halluci ... Regardless of if anyone even thinks of this as a "song" or even music, I had a lot of fun and satisfaction doing it. Most people look at me, listen to that, and don't see how the two go together. So I think that there are some Taxi listings where the client is asking for total creativity and some that aren't. I try to look a little beyond the initial listing and hope for more creativity beyond that. My short experience is that my expectations are indeed reality.This is a good discussion, by the way. Dave

[horacejesse]

Hook,I just do not believe DJ's pay much if any attention to who wrote a song. Sure, they might be able to name a favorite songwriter, and so can a fair number of civilians. Ask the DJ to name five non-artist writers and I will bet they will be stumped.