Adding Live Players to a Midi Track

[georginasaint]

Hi all, I write mostly instrumentals - orchestral mostly - create them all on EW with Cubase, but I'm getting a lot of comments from screeners and music libraries about how adding a few live players into the mix would bring everything up a notch. Anyone got experience with this? How does it come out? I would have to pay for a studio and pay players to do this and it would be quite an investment, so I thought I'd post this and see if anybody has any advice as to whether or not it's worth doing. Thanks, Georgie

[hummingbird]

Sept 20, 2008, 1:17pm, georginasaint wrote:Hi all, I write mostly instrumentals - orchestral mostly - create them all on EW with Cubase, but I'm getting a lot of comments from screeners and music libraries about how adding a few live players into the mix would bring everything up a notch. Anyone got experience with this? How does it come out? I would have to pay for a studio and pay players to do this and it would be quite an investment, so I thought I'd post this and see if anybody has any advice as to whether or not it's worth doing. Thanks, GeorgieI had the same feedback last year... so I picked up recorders & penny whistles (I used to play the flute), got better at the guitar, took a few mandolin lessons, added the odd vocal track... it can be as simple as picking up a shaker or the spoons to add something live to the percussion ...but really the secret is... to make it sound as though it is live. That means maybe listening to violins play in an orchestra and thinking about how you can work with your samples to make them sound like that, like several different people are playing the same part, for example. Also varying velocities like a human being would if playing their part, using mod wheel/controller 11 for expression, and playing the midi parts live from your keyboard so they have that human feel. Also length of notes and accuracy of notes - nothing says "synth" more than all the instruments hitting the beat bang on & lasting exactly the same amount of time.

[ernstinen]

Yup, it's a great idea! I've done it often. You can put an ad on a bulletin board at your local college music school and get someone who is an accomplished player for cheap!But why rent a studio? If you have ONE good mic (you can buy one for $200) and a fairly quiet room (no garbage trucks or jets flying by ) with a basic recording system, do it yourself!I don't know Cubase and wouldn't know how to sync it up, but I'm sure someone else here could tell you how to do it!Best of luck,Ern

[ernstinen]

Sept 20, 2008, 2:23pm, hummingbird wrote:I had the same feedback last year... so I picked up recorders & penny whistles (I used to play the flute), got better at the guitar, took a few mandolin lessons, added the odd vocal track... it can be as simple as picking up a shaker or the spoons to add something live to the percussion ...but really the secret is... to make it sound as though it is live. That means maybe listening to violins play in an orchestra and thinking about how you can work with your samples to make them sound like that, like several different people are playing the same part, for example. Also varying velocities like a human being would if playing their part, using mod wheel/controller 11 for expression, and playing the midi parts live from your keyboard so they have that human feel. Also length of notes and accuracy of notes - nothing says "synth" more than all the instruments hitting the beat bang on & lasting exactly the same amount of time.Ms. Bird beat me to it! I also add odd percussion parts (a salt shaker miked is a great instrument!).Also, on the MIDI front, choose other instruments from your library (if you're doing violin tracks, for instance), and play the same parts in real time. DON'T quantize them for a more realistic sound! I do that alot, and stack sounds without quantizing them.Stacking brass section parts with different samples also works real well, as well as celli, viola, and double bass parts. Use one that has an attack, others that are more legato. The more variety that you use, the more realistic it becomes.But again, REAL instruments add that little "something" that may help your tracks.Ern

[mazz]

I've had good luck mixing libraries. I have some really good solo instrument samples that I use for section leaders. I also ride the controllers quite a bit and spend a lot of time editing MIDI data to make things sound as good as possible.It also helps to know the limitations of your library, even EW has them, and play to the strengths. If your brass don't sound good high, don't write them there or double them with strings or woodwinds.Adding live players certainly helps and can make a big difference, particularly if you don't want to spend a ton of time staring at the computer editing little dots on a screen.Mazz

[Mark Kaufman]

Lots of players on craigslist might be recruited for the price of a good hot meal, or beer.

[ernstinen]

Sept 20, 2008, 5:27pm, mazz wrote:I've had good luck mixing libraries. I have some really good solo instrument samples that I use for section leaders. I also ride the controllers quite a bit and spend a lot of time editing MIDI data to make things sound as good as possible.Good points, Mazz! I mix A LOT of different libraries, but if you only have one, you have to use all the articulations to make it sound believable. But it's best to have more than EW, even though that is my favorite! EW Gold is the best I've ever bought, even though I own lots of others.I edit MIDI data to the point of exhaustion to make it sound "real." THAT'S very important.Ern

[hummingbird]

Sept 20, 2008, 7:08pm, lyle wrote:Lots of players on craigslist might be recruited for the price of a good hot meal, or beer.bear in mind if you are producing tracks to pitch for film & tv you need a Master Release from all players/singers

[mojobone]

I don't expect it'd be difficult to find collaborators online; send off a an MP3 two-mix, get back a WAV file, Bob's your uncle. Focus would be finding expressive lead players; sax, trumpet, violin/cello, perhaps electric guitar. If you're writing, you probably play at least one polyphonic instrument well enough to record it yourself and only need an occasional improviser or reader for those extra-spicy parts. It wouldn't have to cost an arm and a leg. Studio time in my neck of the woods runs $25 to $75 an hour, and lots of DAW users like me will work cheap if you're flexible on time.

[georginasaint]

Hi everyone, thanks for all this input - lots of food for thought here. I can see that it's well worth trying this at home myself first to see if I can get the results I want before going to the expense of studio and players. I do play everything live from my keyboard and often don't quantize just for that reason.I find EW solo strings very electronic sounding, with the cello being about the most acceptable. Perhaps if I try several different ways and I certainly can spend more time playing around with different articulations. And that's a great idea about throwing in a salt shaker or recorder - I can do that! I have a clarinet and a violin and a guitar lying around, perhaps i can get good enough on those to add a few notes. I would need to get a good mic, but that might be a better investment than hiring a studio. Anyway, thank you all for the input! Excellent advice, as usual!Georgie