AKG 414: There's a reason cheap condenser mics are cheap!

[billg1]

Eliot,
I get your point, and there is certainly value in having well-known, classic mic models.
On the other hand, it is just too simplistic to bundle all lower cost mics in the box.

Some of them are garbage, some of them are just as good as classic Telefunkens , AKGs or Neumanns.

When you have a chance, try AudioTechnica AT2020 or Studio Projects C1 (especially the first series, circa 2001, with 747 logo on it)

You may be surprised...

Happy recording,
George

I think a lot of what works or doesn't work for a mic really depends on the singer and the room. I had an AT 2020 and still have an early SP C1 and found both to be pretty bad for my situation. The "not-so-perfect" acoustics in my room coupled with my "essey" voice was a nightmare to work with, they are both very bright mics in my opinion . . . which could be a good thing for some singers in some situations, but not for me.

[musicliner]

I think a lot of what works or doesn't work for a mic really depends on the singer and the room. I had an AT 2020 and still have an early SP C1 and found both to be pretty bad for my situation. The "not-so-perfect" acoustics in my room coupled with my "essey" voice was a nightmare to work with, they are both very bright mics in my opinion . . . which could be a good thing for some singers in some situations, but not for me.

Bill, you are absolutely right, if a room is "acoustically challanged" all bets are of...
Another thing to try before switching mics is to have a preamp with variable impedance. I have recently got such preamp, and I just couldn't believe my ears in terms of variety of the sonic palette you get at your disposal.

Here's how it is described by some more knowledgable people:

"What's 'variable impedance' - and why do I need it?
Altering the input impedance changes the load against which the microphone has to push - this dramatically alters the performance of any mic, from classic ribbons, vintage and modern condensers - even dynamic mics.

All microphones will respond similarly in that the apparent proximity gets 'closer' when the impedance is lowered, but since you're changing the load on the mic - you're altering the performance of the microphone, not the preamplifier.

Bottom line: You haven't heard your microphones until you've heard them loaded at different impedances."

[stevecollom]

musicliner,
wow that is really cool.
What impedance pre would you recommend?
Steve

[musicliner]

musicliner,
wow that is really cool.
What impedance pre would you recommend?
Steve

Steve,
Several preamp manufacturers offer this feature, from ART to Focusrite to Avalon, just to name a few.
You really need to look at the full set of features (and price) before making decision.
I use now-out-of-production ART MPA Gold

[rnrmachine]

Eliot,
I get your point, and there is certainly value in having well-known, classic mic models.
On the other hand, it is just too simplistic to bundle all lower cost mics in the box.

Some of them are garbage, some of them are just as good as classic Telefunkens , AKGs or Neumanns.

When you have a chance, try AudioTechnica AT2020 or Studio Projects C1 (especially the first series, circa 2001, with 747 logo on it)

You may be surprised...

Happy recording,
George

I do 100% agree with this... there are times when the expensive mic should not be the goto mic really. There are many variables in any given situation. There is a reason why there are so many schools teaching mic placement, which mics would be best to choose etc... not to mention preamps. A Mic pre will make a world of different and the impedience will make a difference, like George said.

If you are new to this aspect here is a good read for you.http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center ... 08/19/2004

When I first replied to this thread I was definately refering to a mic being used on vocals specifically. A VERY important thing I would like to mention is... finding the sweet spot on ANY microphone is crucial to it sounding the best it can for any given vocal AND matching a mic with the vocals can't be stressed enough either. All of these are important factors when choosing and using a mic. The one thing with well known costly mics is.. you know they are good, when they are plugged in compared to less expensive mics there is an obvious difference. It does not mean you can't make high quality tracks with cheapers mics. You are just limited now and you need to be a better engineer to make up for the limitation.

It's a lot like racing... if you have umlimited funds and the best crew chief with an excelent driver you have a HUGE advantage over the "budget" racing crew with the bare essentials car. You need to become very proficent with what you have.

Rob

[billg1]

For vocals a great dynamic mic like an Ev-RE20 or a Shure Sm7b will beat a cheap condenser mic the majority of the time. That's why there have been more records made by major artists who use the Sm7 than with all of the $300 condensers combined. And these are artists and producers who have access to any mic they desire!

If you're in a situation where you're recording other things (guitar/bass cabs, etc.) you'll need a good dynamic anyway so it seems to me it would be a smart financial thing to purchase something like an industry standard Sm7. If you don't like it for some reason on your voice (could happen with any mic) it'll still be great for other apps & will be a mic you'll keep forever, get a lot of use from it, and most importantly you won't have wasted your money.

Cheap condensers can sound good on acoustic guitar though, and of course you need condensers for drum overheads and/or room mics. IMO probably the best low"ish" cost LDC (at least of all that I've used) might be the AT-4050 which is a great mic at $600 (with shockmount) and is a giant leap over the at 2020 and SP C1, etc. The MXL V69 is a great mic with a tube swap but it's not a quiet mic. The MXL V67 is supposed to be an awesome mic after it's modded (never used it) but I think the mod is around $300.

[daxunplugged]

I competely agree with the original sentiments of this post...I just wanted to throw a nod out to my AT4033, had it for over 11 years and it has really held up, even against mics costing 3x as much...One day I will have a U87 though...haha

[rnrmachine]

For vocals a great dynamic mic like an Ev-RE20 or a Shure Sm7b will beat a cheap condenser mic the majority of the time. That's why there have been more records made by major artists who use the Sm7 than with all of the $300 condensers combined. And these are artists and producers who have access to any mic they desire!

If you're in a situation where you're recording other things (guitar/bass cabs, etc.) you'll need a good dynamic anyway so it seems to me it would be a smart financial thing to purchase something like an industry standard Sm7. If you don't like it for some reason on your voice (could happen with any mic) it'll still be great for other apps & will be a mic you'll keep forever, get a lot of use from it, and most importantly you won't have wasted your money.

Cheap condensers can sound good on acoustic guitar though, and of course you need condensers for drum overheads and/or room mics. IMO probably the best low"ish" cost LDC (at least of all that I've used) might be the AT-4050 which is a great mic at $600 (with shockmount) and is a giant leap over the at 2020 and SP C1, etc. The MXL V69 is a great mic with a tube swap but it's not a quiet mic. The MXL V67 is supposed to be an awesome mic after it's modded (never used it) but I think the mod is around $300.

I am going to get one of those sm7 mics... you have convinced me they are worth having!!!

Rob

[eliotpister1]

Thanks for all the comments, guys. Now to end this thread on a sad note. My AKG414, which I've had since 1991, just bit the big one. I don't know what's wrong with the capsule, but suddenly it's lots all its brightness and sounds like a burlap rug has been placed in front of the source. I haven't taken it to a technician yet - and may not, knowing that whatever the problem is, it'll be costly to fix.

Bummer. Maybe I'll just go out and buy a couple crummy $100 condensors now. ha!

[billg1]

Thanks for all the comments, guys. Now to end this thread on a sad note. My AKG414, which I've had since 1991, just bit the big one. I don't know what's wrong with the capsule, but suddenly it's lots all its brightness and sounds like a burlap rug has been placed in front of the source. I haven't taken it to a technician yet - and may not, knowing that whatever the problem is, it'll be costly to fix.

Bummer. Maybe I'll just go out and buy a couple crummy $100 condensors now. ha!

That is a bummer! You know, to look at this from another perspective . . . If I only had $100 and HAD to have a LDC I think (based on a lot of credible Gearslutz opinions) I would try the MXL V67g
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/4 ... phone.html

My thinking is that it's supposed to be pretty decent out of the box (even some 414 users like it) and "down the road" there are mod offers for around $300 that claim to take this into U87 territory.

I haven't tried this mic though . . . and I have been eventually let down by most of my cheap mic experiments . . . still, if Mike Jolly says it's a good mic I think it might be worth a try.