Ambient with Momentum ..... huh??

[jazzstan]

AMBIENT/ATMOSPHERIC SONGS and INSTRUMENTALS in the wide range of The xx, Thievery Corporation, Zero 7, Sigur Ros, Explosions in the Sky, etc... fresh/contemporary, and should work well as underscores to scenes. TAXI # Y100412EL

Not Forwarded. #287: "There could be more momentum in this track."

Momentum? Momentum? In ambient/atmospheric? I've been listening to ijazzglobal.com's "CHILL" internet radio alot, and the piece I submitted seems to be within the range of stuff I hear. So I must not know something or else all y'all submitted some awesomely great and on-target tunes. Can some one point me in the right direction?

http://www.taximusic.com/stream/307646/ ... 0_Amb_.mp3

[jfraizer]

Hey Jazzstan

I got the same thing from the same screener for one of my tracks, but for a different listing.

"Adding more momentum could more fully engage the listener".

I'm guessing they are looking for more of a build up and release bridging the sections together, but ???

Just wanted you to know I feel your pain.

[LawTunes]

Ambient? Momentum? Was this for a Walgreens commercial?

[mazz]

Stan

Cool piece. Ambient, for sure!

If you listen to Thievery Corporation (I'm a bit familiar with them), you'll hear more of a dance beat sound underneath their music. When I listen to yours, I get more of a world beat/smooth jazz vibe, which isn't that close to the a las, IMO.

In the past few years, it seems that Ambient music has taken on a bit of a different meaning from the Ambient music of the 70s and 80s a la Eno. If you go into a hip restaurant in LA, you'll hear the type of music referenced in the listing, which is, I suppose, meant to set an Ambience in the restaurant. But it's certainly got more of the dance music influence than any of Eno's ambient music ever did and sometimes it's not the ambience I want in a restaurant. I guess I'm just not "hip" anymore!

So the term "momentum" as the screener uses it probably means a bit of a heavier beat, as in the a las listed.

Again, cool piece, just not right for the listing, IMO.

Cheers!

Mazz

[ibanez468guit]

Mine was marked "stylistically off target". That's it. Yeah...right. Sorry, not buyin' it. I believe that I was very much on point, based on what I heard. If anyone goes to their myspace site (http://www.myspace.com/thieverycorporation) and listens, you can't tell me that you don't hear the Reggae influence (along with the ambient/atmospheric stuff underneath) in at least 3 of their tunes ("Sound the Alarm", "Originality feat. Sister Nancy", and "Radio Retaliation"). Matter of fact, here's a quote from their myspace page:

“This record is also our most internationally oriented,” adds Garza, describing how Radio Retaliation touches upon the eclectic sounds of Jamaica, Latin America, Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. “The roots of our inspiration have always come from what is happening globally, and at the moment there is so much that demands the attention of all of us.”

I practically re-produced the tune ("Radio Retaliation"-minus the vocals) for cryin'-out-loud! My arrangement was practically the same. My tempo was exactly the same, and the key was approximately the same. Theirs had horn parts. Mine too. Had plenty of ambient/atmospheric stuff underneath. So....what was the problem? I put a few guitar licks in there to fill some space??? C'mon...ya' gotta be kiddin' me. You guys can be the judge (even though it's not gonna' matter one way or another). Whatever.

"Red Alert" http://www.box.net/shared/77xdklgmje

[jazzstan]

Mazz, you are probably (hell, you are USUALLY) right on.

Ibanez - I liked your tune better than T.C.'s !!! But then anything with some cool bluesly guitar works for me!

[ibanez468guit]

Ya' know Stan? When I posted this up in P2P about a month ago, someone else (can't remember who it was without going back in time) said something similar. And thanks for the comment. 'Preciate it. Really, I do. But everyone that responded, gave me their suggestions about what I should do to improve, and I went back and made those adjustments before submitting. And still...NO DICE! Not placing blame on anyone for suggestions. That's why I put it up there.

I...am...at...a...total...loss. I guess I still just don't get it (believe me though, at some point...I will. You can count on that). It amazes me how some folks can ask for opinions on tunes that don't sound anything like the genre the listing is asking for, get those opinions specifying that the tune(s) doesn't/don't sound like the genre said listing is asking for, and still get forwarded. That's not an intended low blow at any member here (so please, please, don't read into it that way!), but it's certainly a questionable blow at the system itself.

What's the formula here? I'm still tryin' ta' figure it out (going on 3 yrs. now). Do I spend 2 hours and just throw anything together (is that what's considered passable?), or do I spend 2 days and try and make it sound like somethin'? I'm confused. Somebody, anybody (that's put a considerable amount of time into this particular journey) please enlighten me so I can try and get this right. "Cause I'm tellin' ya', I ain't gonna' quit.

I've made numerous amounts of improvements since I began. I KNOW IT!! I can hear it! I was pushed to do so! I'm grateful for that, don't get me wrong. But I'm like, maaaan... I can't get a forward now, I can't get a deal, I can't even get an email notifying me that the screening process has ended. I CAN'T be all that bad, can I?? Somebody tell me somethin'. And I'm not talkin' about the usual stuff that I read when I see someone else goin' through the same thing. Gimme' somethin' else besides "maybe it didn't fit the listing". 'Cause it fit the listing.
I think I did my homework just as diligently as the rest of you do. I ain't gettin' the same results though, so somebody talk to me.

[mazz]

Well I hear you, you put a lot of work into the tune and it shows and I understand where you're coming from on this. It's a frustrating process. I don't remember being involved in the original posts you made on this during your composing process.

I wanted to understand more of the music that the listing specified and I'd never heard of The xx so I sampled a few of their tunes from itunes. I happen to have 3 Thievery Corporation albums so I surfed around on those as well.

As I went through, I asked myself: "What is the common thread through this music and what could the client be hearing that makes them pick these bands as a las?" It's the usual guessing game, of course, but what I came up with is this: There's a certain space and sparseness in the music that seems to pervade the two bands that I listened to. Of course, there was the reggae and world influence in Thievery Corporation's music as well. But as I cruised through, my gut feeling was that the reggae music was an anomaly in their output and one of the things that made the reggae stuff work was the authentic vocals. Without the vocals, it was pretty much garden variety dub/reggae with more of a dance mix on the drums. If I was writing for this listing, I wouldn't have chosen the reggae stuff, I would have gone for the more atmospheric stuff with the "hip" grooves underneath it, which according to my album collection of Thievery Corp, is a larger percentage of their stuff. I'm not saying that your choice was wrong or ill conceived, I'm just relating my thought process, for what it's worth. (And I have the benefit of hindsight here as well, I'll cop to that!)

It's a tough one. You have the musical chops, Bruce, there's no doubt. Maybe it's a matter of stepping back and really looking even more deeply into the listings and trying to get into the mind of the client. I think it's totally valid to contact TAXI if you're unclear on what the listing is asking for and it might be worth it in this case to ask for a custom critique based on the listing and ask them where you went off course. I would even include your process for choosing which of the a las to focus on. This could be a very valuable way to improve your targeting chops.

I think you'll have a breakthrough, your music is right there. Use the critique service to get very specific on what you could have done, not only musically, but research-wise, to have gotten a forward.

Hang in there, bro!

Mazz

[ibanez468guit]

Hey Mazz!

Thanks for responding and your time for investigating. Much appreciated. I'll tell you exactly what I did, and why. I did listen to some of the other a las, and in the end, I decided I liked what Thievery was doing (was my first time ever listening to them). Now, the reason I went with the reggae vibe, was because (as I recall from many past discussions on this topic of the a las from threads on the old forum) I thought the idea was to get as close to what was currently going on with any of the a las. That's what I remember reading (or something along those lines).

I believe I went back and sampled TC's earlier works. I can't recall exactly what I heard. But regardless, it wasn't current as opposed to what I heard on their myspace site. I had looked up their most recent album at the time, to see how many songs that were on the myspace site, were also on the album. Again, can't recall how many now, maybe 2 or so. Radio Retaliation being one of them. So that's where my focus went. On what they had currently put out. Keyword: currently. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, that's what I heard more of from the several tunes they currently had posted, was the reggae vibe. So at that specific time, I thought I was making some fairly calculated moves in my decision making process. I guess I gotta' get my calculator fixed.

Your response makes good sense to me, so I understand. And no, I obviously don't have the benefit of hindsight as you do. I'll clearly admit that it is extremely difficult for me to delve into the mind of the client/screeners by way of ESP, and pull out what it is they want. I'll look into a custom critique of this, and see what I get. Sorry you weren't a part of the initial thread when I first posted in P2P a month ago. I was sure looking for you, but ya' never made it. That's OK...maybe next time. Peace!

ibanez468

[cardell]

Hi Ibanez,

This is meant as constructive criticism:
Your piece sound mechanical to me (apart from your guitar playing which I like). The bass is not helping at all. To my ear, it needs a real bass line.

Stuart