Any secrets to recording real drums?

[elser]

I don't see why using drum samples is any more of a crutch than using piano samples or guitar samples or samples of a thunder clap, that's just how it's done today. Why would I get out my recording gear and stand out in the rain to record a thunder clap when someone's already done it for me?

[mojobone]

Why a crutch? Same reason I advise students not to buy a guitar with a wang bar until after they've developed their finger vibrato; when you take a shortcut you short-circuit your development, and an audio engineer should know how to (at least) adequately mic a kit. If your intent is to produce music for money rather than become an engineer, you can save yourself some time and trouble, but it's still a useful thing to know. (but so is layering samples using trigger software, heh) The biggest part of the job is tuning the drums: http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/s ... /DTBv3.pdf

[elser]

That's a cool link. Still useful information when using virtual drums. And for live situations. I play in a band where we have a main drummer, and a percussionist who also has either a trap set or at least a tom tom set on stage and then I've got 2 timpani drums.
Needless to say there's a lot of drum tuning going on at sound check.

[eliotpister1]

I agree with mojobone about trying not to short-circuit the development of your engineering skills. And recording a drum kit WELL is one of the most difficult recording tasks you'll face - especially if the drums are so-so, and the room is so-so.

Using BFD or some of the other virtual drum software others have mentioned is definitely the way to go in the long run, but in the meantime, if there's one secret weapon in recording kits that I've found help the tone in a big way is compression. And don't be shy with it. Heavy compression on snare and toms really fattens things out (if set properly), and on the overheads things just get BIGGER. At the end of the day, if you're spending more than a few hours getting your drum sounds, and you're still not happy - trigger 'em! It's not worth the hassle.

Cheers, Eliot.

[waltzmastering]

I don't see why using drum samples is any more of a crutch than using piano samples or guitar samples or samples of a thunder clap, that's just how it's done today. Why would I get out my recording gear and stand out in the rain to record a thunder clap when someone's already done it for me?

I think it's a bit different in that the op asked "What are some secrets to recording REAL drums".

If they had asked "What are some secrets to recording REAL piano"
Would the answer be, just use a sample piano instead of the baby grand you have in front of you?

or

If they had asked "What are some secrets to recording REAL guitar"
Would the answer be just use a sample guitar in your Korg instead of the Les Paul and Fender amp you have at your disposal.

For me "soul" is a big part of what makes real music great, and also a big part of what's missing in a lot of today's music.

I guess I look at it a little differently, as when recording an acoustic set, samples would be the very last resort and used as a last ditch effort and as an admission of defeat.

As ElliotP was saying, it's short circuiting the creative process before it even has a chance to get off the ground.
Have some faith...

[elser]

I think it's a bit different in that the op asked "What are some secrets to recording REAL drums".

A ha! Point taken.

[ernstinen]

Wow! This is right down my alley. Not only did I record/engineer the drum recordings for my own bands for many years, I also spent years as the audio engineer in a video studio recording LIVE BANDS! Some in the studio (a huge 40x60 room with a 30' ceiling), but also on location --- all to stereo 3/4" video tape! So, man was that some pressure to get it right, immediately. Whoohoo!

First off, as probably has been said, the main thing is the drummer as a musician. He/she chooses the drums, the heads, the cymbals, the sticks, the style, everything. If you have a shitty sounding kit and a lousy drummer, you're out of luck! Plus the room, of course. But it's best to have a second engineer move mics around, and the first engineer be isolated from the room and saying what sounds good: "STOP! RIGHT THERE! DON'T MOVE IT!" Very important, just an inch here or there moving mics around.

There are a couple methods that I normally used: Multiple miking, and the "John Bonham" method. It depends on the drummer, the room, and the sound you want. For multiple miking, I'd start with the kick and snare. A lot of times I'd put a "brighter" mic on the interior of the kick head, and a "bigger sounding mic" outside of the drum itself, normally with the front head taken off. A lot of times drummers use a sand bag or a pillow inside the kick drum to dampen it a bit. A Normal "bright mic" would be a Sennehiser 421, and a "big mic" would be an EV RE-20.

Snare is a big problem. I like the usual SM-57 pointed away from the hi-hat, 'cause hat can overwhelm the snare. But point the snare mic across the head, not at the head. Never been one to mic the bottom side of the snare; sometimes. But that's because ---

Overheads! A matched pair of small diagraphm condensers about 10-15' above the kit cover a lot of territory. (The Bonham method was basically 2 overheads, kick mic off the drum, and maybe a snare mic.). So after you get a sound nailed down with those 4-5 mics, then it's time to close mic toms, and occasionally ride, crash, and hat. With THAT many mics, check for phase problems and listen to the kit in MONO!

I've spent a whole DAY miking a drum kit! (Not @ the video studio, of course! I actually did the "Bonham method" is about an hour, with 4 mics! It was a HUGE room (60x80x40), and sounded great! But, my favorite close-miked recording was in a 20x15 bedroom with a 12' ceiling. --- But two completely different drummers, style-wise, though.

Whew! --- HTH!

Ern

[billg1]

Man, if I had a dollar for every hour I sat in a studio while an engineer placed a "sanitary napkin" in different locations on a snare or tom I'd be rich! . . . tap, tap, "how's this" . . . "Mmmm, move it closer to the rim" . . . tap, tap, etc.

The best I can offer is that one time a very good engineer/producer/drummer told me that you should be able to get a good ballpark sound with just the overheads (maybe some additional room mics) and a mic'ed kick. If you can get that sounding good then mic'ing the rest of the kit should pretty smooth sailing. He used to deal with the "bad vibrations" (boomy rings, pings, whatever) by listening with just the overheads & kick activated & his drums always sounded great.

I was reading an article a couple of days ago where a producer was saying that great sounding records are usually made when 3/4 of the time is spent on getting it right (getting great sounds etc.) in the tracking stage and 1/4 in the mixing stage. Although a lot of time is spent with drums, he was also talking a lot about mic placement for guitar cabs etc. He may have been stretching it a bit but I can personally recall a lot of sessions that were probably close to that formula (maybe 2/3 tracking and 1/3 mixing).

Now that everything can be done much easier (VST, drum programs, etc.) & the formula seems to have flip-flopped it only stands to reason that some rudimentary tracking skills are probably not needed anymore and might even eventually just fade away. I guess only time will tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing as far as the sound of recordings is concerned.

I come from a family of educators (i'm the dumb-ass exception) and i'm constantly hearing about how the bar has to be lowered to keep the pass/fail ratios acceptable for high school students. Instead of having to dig through reference books, etc. for information these are kids who have tools that at the click of a button gives them access to all of the information in the world . . .I can't help but draw a musical comparison.

[mojobone]

Okay, two more secrets: Where you place the kit in the room can make or break the session. (more on this, later) and secondly, when I'm mixing an outside project, I bring up just the kick and the overheads first; if the tracking engineer knew her business, I'll use very little else. (and sometimes, just the overheads) This is partly style or preference, but for me, more mics is just more potential phase issues-you don't need a ton of mics if the room and the kit and the drummer are happenin'. Sadly, this is seldom the case.

[mojobone]

Every room is different, and so is every kit, so I like to experiment with placement before putting up any mics. Walk around the room banging a (well-tuned) snare at about crotch level and listen for the sweet spot. Usually it'll be as far from walls (and reflections) as you can get, but off-center. In a rectangular room, (that's most of 'em) divide it in thirds, lengthwise and center the beater side of the kick along one of the (imaginary) dividing lines, then move it a little left or right. (doesn't always work, but a good starting point) Given a choice, I like a room with high ceilings-12-16 ft. You can reinforce a weak-sounding kick drum by placing it in a corner, but this might screw with your snare sound-but it can work, depending on the room's construction/treatment. Hardwood floors can sound great but can also reflect into your kit mics, so careful with the mic placement, and keep some mats/rugs handy. A thick, rubber-backed drum mat can be a godsend.